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The Cuts at WVU

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Re: The Cuts at WVU

#91

Post by toomuchtodo »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #70
driggs wrote: post #25

Meanwhile our coal baron Governor is trumpeting that the State of West Virginia has a historic record $1.8-billion tax surplus this year: https://governor.wv.gov/News/press-releases/2023/Pages/Gov.-... And we're forcing the primary state university to gut its programs and/or risk complete shutdown over $45-million budget deficit, partially due to inadequate state funding. Why? Because - tragically - West Virginians p…

> Why? Because - tragically - West Virginians pride themselves on ignorance, consistently vote against their own longterm best interests, and loathe the idea of liberal higher education in all its forms. I'm tired of people saying that people vote against their own interests. Is it so insane to believe that maybe they have different interests that don't make sense to you or me?

As long as they don’t complain when there is nothing left of value, that’s totally fine.

https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/solutions/2021/07/14/wes...

https://mooney.house.gov/west-virginia-losing-us-house-seat-...

https://www.wvnews.com/statejournal/news/we-have-this-viciou...

https://www.register-herald.com/news/life/w-va-leads-all-oth...

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#92

Post by clintonb »

frob wrote: post #13
footy wrote: post #4

> In fact, on the same day WVU wrote to tell us our department is cancelled and we are fired, they ran a front-page article on the university website celebrating the NSF grant that Sergio Robles-Puente and I recently received, and lauding our innovative research and intensive student mentoring. I have a few close friends in academia and while IMO they're clearly underappreciated by their institutions (even the lucky…

This reminds me of when MIT was putting student hacks, like the fire truck on the dome, on the front of their promotional material while prosecuting those same students for exploring unlocked areas of the campus.

Can you share evidence of MIT explicitly prosecuting/bringing charges against students?

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#93

Post by TexanFeller »

agar wrote: post #81
TexanFeller wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my state UT is highly ranked nationally for many programs and estimated costs are $33k/yr to study engineering, or $130k total(source: https://admissions.utexas.edu/cost-aid/cost-tuition-rates/ ). That's for a great school in one of the most expensive cities in the state. The largest component of that is $13k living expenses which you would spend anyway if not attending. If you want lower living costs you can atte…

Of course there are options; there's community college, transferring, less prestigious schools, etc. However, it sucks to tell your kid that worked their ass off their whole life that they can't go to their first choice schools because of administrative mismanagement. Read the WSJ article that is linked elsewhere to see the systemic issues facing higher education. It's bleak. "Congratulations, you got into Rice! Can…

Welcome to life for most of us. Precious few are privileged enough to go to whatever school they want to. Almost everyone has to make tradeoffs based on economic factors, it's been that way forever. It was that way over two decades ago when I went to school. I dreamed of going to MIT or more realistically UT, but that wasn't affordable to me with the support my family struggled to provide. I took all the measures I suggested, lived first 1hr away at home and then in a trailer park instead of on campus, and worked as much as I could between classes. A big chunk of my classmates were worse off.

UNT has some perfectly good programs by the way, some of the most brilliant and successful people I know graduated from their math and physics programs.

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#94

Post by driggs »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #70
driggs wrote: post #25

Meanwhile our coal baron Governor is trumpeting that the State of West Virginia has a historic record $1.8-billion tax surplus this year: https://governor.wv.gov/News/press-releases/2023/Pages/Gov.-... And we're forcing the primary state university to gut its programs and/or risk complete shutdown over $45-million budget deficit, partially due to inadequate state funding. Why? Because - tragically - West Virginians p…

> Why? Because - tragically - West Virginians pride themselves on ignorance, consistently vote against their own longterm best interests, and loathe the idea of liberal higher education in all its forms. I'm tired of people saying that people vote against their own interests. Is it so insane to believe that maybe they have different interests that don't make sense to you or me?

Then go ahead and explain why West Virginia is consistently and historically among the poorest, least educated, unhealthiest, and unhappiest states in the US.

It is a fact that West Virginians vote to perpetuate these circumstances. Our governor is the richest coal baron in the state, and we're going to overwhelmingly vote out centrist Joe Manchin to put that coal baron into the US Senate.

I've lived here for four decades, the son of a coal miner who was the son of a coal miner, the first person in my extended family to ever earn a college degree. Do you actually know what you're talking about, or are you just angrily shouting into the wind?

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#95

Post by MikeTheGreat »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #91
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why? Because - tragically - West Virginians pride themselves on ignorance, consistently vote against their own longterm best interests, and loathe the idea of liberal higher education in all its forms. I'm tired of people saying that people vote against their own interests. Is it so insane to believe that maybe they have different interests that don't make sense to you or me?

As long as they don’t complain when there is nothing left of value, that’s totally fine. https://www.jsonline.com/story/news/solutions/2021/07/14/wes... https://mooney.house.gov/west-virginia-losing-us-house-seat-... https://www.wvnews.com/statejournal/news/we-have-this-viciou... https://www.register-herald.com/news/life/w-va-leads-all-oth...

Thank you for the links. They look interesting and informative (and now, they're all saved in my Pocket list)

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#96

Post by agar »

TexanFeller wrote: post #93
agar wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course there are options; there's community college, transferring, less prestigious schools, etc. However, it sucks to tell your kid that worked their ass off their whole life that they can't go to their first choice schools because of administrative mismanagement. Read the WSJ article that is linked elsewhere to see the systemic issues facing higher education. It's bleak. "Congratulations, you got into Rice! Can…

Welcome to life for most of us. Precious few are privileged enough to go to whatever school they want to. Almost everyone has to make tradeoffs based on economic factors, it's been that way forever. It was that way over two decades ago when I went to school. I dreamed of going to MIT or more realistically UT, but that wasn't affordable to me with the support my family struggled to provide. I took all the measures I s…

Yeah, I totally get it's a high quality problem. And, I feel you. Not to be "back in my day..." but I had to work 40 hours a week and live with 3 other people off campus to put myself through school. I understand sacrifice and hard choices.

But dude, after all that I wanted to give my kids the college experience I couldn't have. Let them live on campus, not have to work to pay tuition, be able to enjoy the benefits of both a strong curriculum and extra-curriculars and maybe even a social life to build networks for the future.

After working my own ass off my whole life, I make good money and have kids that can go almost anywhere. But...can't. All the living in a trailer park and full-time work will barely make a dent in some of these numbers.

But this really isn't a "woe is me" - I talk to a lot of other parents in exactly the same situation. I'm just at one end of a systemic middle class problem. You're either rich, in which case dropping $200K-$400K for a bachelors isn't a problem, or you're poor, in which case there's huge need-based aid available today.

If you're in the middle though, you're either squeezed out or taking on massive debts. This isn't even touching on the declining value of a bachelors and possible need to pay another $50-$60K for a Masters just to have an ROI.

(and I really wasn't slagging UNT. It's a fine school. My point was that it's hard to shift a teenager's thinking from a "dream school" to an affordable school without a significant amount of disappointment -- and the concomitant feelings of failure as a parent.)

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#97

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

driggs wrote: post #94
onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why? Because - tragically - West Virginians pride themselves on ignorance, consistently vote against their own longterm best interests, and loathe the idea of liberal higher education in all its forms. I'm tired of people saying that people vote against their own interests. Is it so insane to believe that maybe they have different interests that don't make sense to you or me?

Then go ahead and explain why West Virginia is consistently and historically among the poorest, least educated, unhealthiest, and unhappiest states in the US. It is a fact that West Virginians vote to perpetuate these circumstances. Our governor is the richest coal baron in the state, and we're going to overwhelmingly vote out centrist Joe Manchin to put that coal baron into the US Senate. I've lived here for four de…

> Then go ahead and explain why West Virginia is consistently and historically among the poorest, least educated, unhealthiest, and unhappiest states in the US.

Can you really not imagine that some people don't care about money or education and instead care about other things that are seemingly unimportant to you?

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#98

Post by tssva »

deaddodo wrote: post #79
tssva wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not trolling. I'm not sure you understand opportunity costs. I have 5m to invest in a department. Investing that 5m in Department A and earn 800k in net revenue. If I invest that same 5m in Department B I can earn 1.4m in net revenue. If I invest in Department A I'm giving up 600k in net revenue.

The department exists already, it needs zero investment. Did you read the article at all? If anything, it's going to absorb more opportunity cost ramping the department down than to let it continue operating. About the only way your argument would make sense is if they desperately needed the physical resources (offices, desks, etc); but considering they closed down other unprofitable departments, there are plenty ava…

I read the entire article and I reviewed the spreadsheet with financial data.

The department costs were $5,846,146 in 2022. They had net revenues of $801,468. A 13.71 ROI. They served a student population of 61. The student population has been consistently shrinking over time. Compare this for example to the Department of Psychology which had costs of $6,485,775 and net revenue of $1,724,536 for an ROI of 26.59. This while serving a student population of 774 which has been consistently increasing over time.

If they believe they can replicate the higher ROI while serving more students by switching the funding to another department they should do so.

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#99

Post by ycdavidsmith »

driggs wrote: post #25

Meanwhile our coal baron Governor is trumpeting that the State of West Virginia has a historic record $1.8-billion tax surplus this year: https://governor.wv.gov/News/press-releases/2023/Pages/Gov.-... And we're forcing the primary state university to gut its programs and/or risk complete shutdown over $45-million budget deficit, partially due to inadequate state funding. Why? Because - tragically - West Virginians p…

And yet this screed is representative of those West Virginians who make the state great. Hang in there.

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#100

Post by ycdavidsmith »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #70
driggs wrote: post #25

Meanwhile our coal baron Governor is trumpeting that the State of West Virginia has a historic record $1.8-billion tax surplus this year: https://governor.wv.gov/News/press-releases/2023/Pages/Gov.-... And we're forcing the primary state university to gut its programs and/or risk complete shutdown over $45-million budget deficit, partially due to inadequate state funding. Why? Because - tragically - West Virginians p…

> Why? Because - tragically - West Virginians pride themselves on ignorance, consistently vote against their own longterm best interests, and loathe the idea of liberal higher education in all its forms. I'm tired of people saying that people vote against their own interests. Is it so insane to believe that maybe they have different interests that don't make sense to you or me?

you’re tired of hearing people are irrational so your response is to assume they’re all rational and it’s simply beyond everyone else’s understanding?
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