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Google marked https://old.reddit.com/r/programming/ as unsafe

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Re: Google marked https://old.reddit.com/r/programming/ as unsafe

#61

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

Avamander wrote: post #57
BizarroLand wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that you're deadset on defending googoo no matter what, but surely you have to agree that the fact that they made browsers block access to your site AND that you have no ability to do anything about it short of filing a lawsuit or waiting for them to get around to fixing it if they ever do is unconscionable, right? I get that it's a service. I don't get how not having human intervention available to fix it when…

> that they made browsers block access to your site AND that you have no ability to do anything about it short of filing a lawsuit or waiting for them to get around to fixing it if they ever do is unconscionable, right? So do AV vendors. What specifically makes it not okay for Google? Have you tried delisting a website from other vendors' products? Microsoft SafeScreen? If you want to hate on Google doing (or not doi…

considering the topic is google's wrongdoing, discussing google's wrongdoing seems appropriate

your repeated attempts to deflect to literally anything except google's wrongdoing makes it seem like you think google should receive special treatment versus the others you're deflecting to

if not, then take your issues with others up with others, or perhaps in a discussion about others, rather than in a discussion about google's wrongdoing, which we can discuss here

Re: Google marked https://old.reddit.com/r/programming/ as unsafe

#62

Post by patmorgan23 »

jstarfish wrote: post #43
gmerc wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the thing that needs to be regulated. It will force these companies to spend actual money on stuff. they’ll be still insanely profitable but not able to run quasi monopolies on infrastructure and extract all profits while externalising all the damage.

I agree in principle, and this is a shitty situation for the GP, but Google's "contract" with the public doesn't even comprise a gentlemen's agreement. They don't owe anybody anything, they're just the cool kid at school who won't acknowledge your existence. You can't (and shouldn't be able to) force them to be your friend. You can't claim harm because someone stopped being friends with you either. There is a questio…

Regulation absolutely is a solution that should be pursued. Companies are responsible for what their automated services do. Your two examples are absurd red harrings and not at all comparable to this situation.

Re: Google marked https://old.reddit.com/r/programming/ as unsafe

#63

Post by justinclift »

jstarfish wrote: post #43
gmerc wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the thing that needs to be regulated. It will force these companies to spend actual money on stuff. they’ll be still insanely profitable but not able to run quasi monopolies on infrastructure and extract all profits while externalising all the damage.

I agree in principle, and this is a shitty situation for the GP, but Google's "contract" with the public doesn't even comprise a gentlemen's agreement. They don't owe anybody anything, they're just the cool kid at school who won't acknowledge your existence. You can't (and shouldn't be able to) force them to be your friend. You can't claim harm because someone stopped being friends with you either. There is a questio…

Well, it seems like Google / Alphabet ran a bunch of their services at a loss for years, until their practical competitors had been extinguished.

Youtube and Gmail spring to mind, though there seems to be a resurgence of people moving away from Gmail these days (my perception anyway).

Since Google wanted to be a monopoly in various markets so badly, they should be required to serve those markets properly.

Like, with customer service / support, and similar. "You won! Here are the consequences..."

It's a shame the push a while ago for them to be regulated like a utility didn't succeed.

Re: Google marked https://old.reddit.com/r/programming/ as unsafe

#64

Post by Avamander »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #58
Avamander wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wish this didn't need to be explicitly specified, but "someone else could harm people" isn't a defense for you actively harming people A statistical inevitability is a defense for something. The world doesn't have perfect things. Stop trying to frame something bad just because it isn't perfect. If you manage to stop that, then it would be possible to have a constructive discussion.

> A statistical inevitability is a defense for something no it isn't, and also being screwed over by the leading search provider isn't a statistical inevitably anyways > Stop trying to frame something bad just because it isn't perfect. If you manage to stop that, then it would be possible to have a constructive discussion. stop trying to justify the means with the ends, more specifically trying to justify google acti…

> no it isn't

If you think it's possible to be 100% accurate detecting phish then I've got a bridge to sell you.

Re: Google marked https://old.reddit.com/r/programming/ as unsafe

#65

Post by Avamander »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #61
Avamander wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that they made browsers block access to your site AND that you have no ability to do anything about it short of filing a lawsuit or waiting for them to get around to fixing it if they ever do is unconscionable, right? So do AV vendors. What specifically makes it not okay for Google? Have you tried delisting a website from other vendors' products? Microsoft SafeScreen? If you want to hate on Google doing (or not doi…

considering the topic is google's wrongdoing, discussing google's wrongdoing seems appropriate your repeated attempts to deflect to literally anything except google's wrongdoing makes it seem like you think google should receive special treatment versus the others you're deflecting to if not, then take your issues with others up with others, or perhaps in a discussion about others, rather than in a discussion about g…

You're trying to discuss Google's inability to be perfect, I'm trying to give you a chance to ground this discussion in reality. So far you've dead-stuck on hating Google just for the sake of it, even if they'd deserve it, you're making the discussion ridiculous and useless.

Re: Google marked https://old.reddit.com/r/programming/ as unsafe

#66

Post by Libcat99 »

jstarfish wrote: post #43
gmerc wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the thing that needs to be regulated. It will force these companies to spend actual money on stuff. they’ll be still insanely profitable but not able to run quasi monopolies on infrastructure and extract all profits while externalising all the damage.

I agree in principle, and this is a shitty situation for the GP, but Google's "contract" with the public doesn't even comprise a gentlemen's agreement. They don't owe anybody anything, they're just the cool kid at school who won't acknowledge your existence. You can't (and shouldn't be able to) force them to be your friend. You can't claim harm because someone stopped being friends with you either. There is a questio…

Google is effectively the gatekeeper to the internet for most people. That did not happen by accident, but through deliberate actions on their part.

They owe it to society to manage what they've built in a fair and attentive fashion, or to give it up to someone who will, for the public good.

Re: Google marked https://old.reddit.com/r/programming/ as unsafe

#67

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

Avamander wrote: post #64
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A statistical inevitability is a defense for something no it isn't, and also being screwed over by the leading search provider isn't a statistical inevitably anyways > Stop trying to frame something bad just because it isn't perfect. If you manage to stop that, then it would be possible to have a constructive discussion. stop trying to justify the means with the ends, more specifically trying to justify google acti…

> no it isn't If you think it's possible to be 100% accurate detecting phish then I've got a bridge to sell you.

if you think it's a statistical inevitability that every single website will eventually be screwed over by google, well, that's just weird given how much you've been defending google

even if that were true, it simply isn't a defense for google choosing to actively harm people: "google was going to screw over this site sooner or later, so you can't get mad at them for doing it now."

like, is that supposed to make google look better? It really doesn't.

Re: Google marked https://old.reddit.com/r/programming/ as unsafe

#68

Post by JohnFen »

Libcat99 wrote: post #66
jstarfish wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree in principle, and this is a shitty situation for the GP, but Google's "contract" with the public doesn't even comprise a gentlemen's agreement. They don't owe anybody anything, they're just the cool kid at school who won't acknowledge your existence. You can't (and shouldn't be able to) force them to be your friend. You can't claim harm because someone stopped being friends with you either. There is a questio…

Google is effectively the gatekeeper to the internet for most people. That did not happen by accident, but through deliberate actions on their part. They owe it to society to manage what they've built in a fair and attentive fashion, or to give it up to someone who will, for the public good.

If there's one thing that Google couldn't care less about, it's "the public good".

Re: Google marked https://old.reddit.com/r/programming/ as unsafe

#69

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

Avamander wrote: post #65
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

considering the topic is google's wrongdoing, discussing google's wrongdoing seems appropriate your repeated attempts to deflect to literally anything except google's wrongdoing makes it seem like you think google should receive special treatment versus the others you're deflecting to if not, then take your issues with others up with others, or perhaps in a discussion about others, rather than in a discussion about g…

You're trying to discuss Google's inability to be perfect, I'm trying to give you a chance to ground this discussion in reality. So far you've dead-stuck on hating Google just for the sake of it, even if they'd deserve it, you're making the discussion ridiculous and useless.

you're refusing to discuss anything google has done which is imperfect

I'm trying to give you a chance to ground this discussion in unbiased reality

so far you're dead-stuck on defending google's decisions to harm people, but you've still failed to articulate a valid defense for it ("they also did good thing" is not a valid defense)

you're making the discussion (which, remember: is about google's wrongdoing) ridiculous and useless by refusing to discuss the topic and instead attacking people who do for "hating on google" or whatever other paranoid persecution fantasies you dream up

if you don't like people discussing the harms google is doing to people, why even join a discussion which is literally about that, and why attack people for discussing it? why not just move onto the next topic whose very existence doesn't personally offend you, and leave everyone here alone?

Re: Google marked https://old.reddit.com/r/programming/ as unsafe

#70

Post by BizarroLand »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #69
Avamander wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're trying to discuss Google's inability to be perfect, I'm trying to give you a chance to ground this discussion in reality. So far you've dead-stuck on hating Google just for the sake of it, even if they'd deserve it, you're making the discussion ridiculous and useless.

you're refusing to discuss anything google has done which is imperfect I'm trying to give you a chance to ground this discussion in unbiased reality so far you're dead-stuck on defending google's decisions to harm people, but you've still failed to articulate a valid defense for it ("they also did good thing" is not a valid defense) you're making the discussion (which, remember: is about google's wrongdoing ) ridicul…

They're probably either a GOOGOO employee, a massive fanboy, a troll, or a paid shill.

If they're not one of those 4, then they are lamentably pathetic wasting their time like this.

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