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Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

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Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#91

Post by rhaksw »

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #57
mutant_glofish wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example if spammers find out which sites are banned then they just post other ones. I don't think that makes sense. The supposed spammers can just try looking up whether their submissions show up or not when not logged in.

That also requires additional effort on the spammers’ part. Increasing cost of attacks is an effective defense strategy.

Increasing cost of attacks is effective against good faith people, not spammers.

Even Cory Doctorow made this case in "Como is Infosec" [1].

The only problem with Cory's argument is, he points people to the SC Principles [2]. The SCP contain exceptions for not notifying about "spam, phishing or malware." But anything can be considered spam, and transparency-with-exceptions has always been platforms' position. They've always argued they can secretly remove content when it amounts to "spam." Nobody has challenged them on that point. The reality is, platforms that use secretive moderation lend themselves to spammers.

[1] https://doctorow.medium.com/como-is-infosec-307f87004563

[2] https://santaclaraprinciples.org/

Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#92

Post by rhaksw »

speedgoose wrote: post #88
rhaksw wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're correct again. Spammers and bots are the most determined actors, so these secretive measures don't impact them. In fact, such secrecy benefits spammers. Good-faith users never imagine that platforms would secretly action content. So when you look at overall trends, bots, spammers and trolls are winning while genuine users are being pushed aside. I argued that secrecy benefits trolls in a blog post, but I don't…

Most spammers aren’t that competent. Hiding their posts without telling them used to be very effective on Reddit (now Reddit tells them). I guess it’s the same on HN.

Spammers are more competent than genuine users. They are advertisers, so they are more likely to be tracking metrics.

Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#93

Post by jahsome »

archo wrote: post #87
mutant_glofish wrote: post #18

I think that HN itself also shadow flags submissions from a list of domains it doesn't like. Try submitting a URL from the following domains, and it will be automatically flagged (but you can't see it's flagged unless you log out): - archive.is - watcher.guru - stacker.news - zerohedge.com - freebeacon.com - thefederalist.com - breitbart.com

Try submitting a URL from the following domains, and it will be automatically flagged (but you can't see its flagged unless you log out): - archive.is I can assure you that is Not the case with HN: on posting archive.is URL's, proof? Look at my comment postings : https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=archo Is it possible you have been shadow-banned for poor compliance to the [1]Guidelines & [2]FAQ's? [1] : https://…

The assertion is about submissions, not comments.

Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#94

Post by thereare5lights »

cornel_io wrote: post #81
cornel_io wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went through my own Twitter feed, and found 10 non-NYT links. All redirected almost immediately through t.co via wget, only lagging on the destination sites. I also tried 5 NYT links. All had a very consistent 5 second delay through wget. I could do more, but I don't care to. Everyone knows Elon has gone redpill, so it wouldn't surprise me if he's "owning the libs", but there also could be a dozen other reasons Twi…

Actually, re: my edit - I think it really is worth considering whether there might be an accidental delay here that's on the NYT side. It's totally possible that Twitter is hitting the sites it redirects people to before it actually sends them there, for either analytics purposes or otherwise, and I'd trust the NYT devops less than Twitter's w.r.t. making sure things were fast. Incompetence before malice, etc...

It's not.

If you use wget, you see that the delay happens during the first hop with t.co

It also happens with threads.net, instagram, facebook, blueskyweb.xyz

Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#95

Post by minimaxir »

rhaksw wrote: post #72

That sounds like a play on the "slow ban": > Selective downtime, where the troll finds that the website is down (or really slow) quite often. Not all of the time, because that would tip them off. Trolls are impatient by nature, so they eventually find a more reliable forum to troll. https://ask.metafilter.com/117775/What-was-the-first-website...

Usually, slow bans aren't done for people who pay you money and add value to your platform.

Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#96

Post by [deleted] »

dang wrote: post #45
jemmyw wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would be nice if the lists were published though with a link to the list from the submission form.

The problem is that if you publish the lists it leads to more abuses. For example if spammers find out which sites are banned then they just post other ones.

[deleted]

Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#97

Post by archo »

mutant_glofish wrote: post #89
archo wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try submitting a URL from the following domains, and it will be automatically flagged (but you can't see its flagged unless you log out): - archive.is I can assure you that is Not the case with HN: on posting archive.is URL's, proof? Look at my comment postings : https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=archo Is it possible you have been shadow-banned for poor compliance to the [1]Guidelines & [2]FAQ's? [1] : https://…

> I can assure you that is Not the case with HN: on posting archive.is URL's, proof? It's not banned in comments, but it is banned in submissions. @dang (HN's moderator) confirms that here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37130177

Covered in the Guidelines;

>Please submit the original source. If a post reports on something found on another site, submit the latter.

And explained on numerous occasions by dang.

Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#99

Post by rhaksw »

minimaxir wrote: post #95
rhaksw wrote: post #72

That sounds like a play on the "slow ban": > Selective downtime, where the troll finds that the website is down (or really slow) quite often. Not all of the time, because that would tip them off. Trolls are impatient by nature, so they eventually find a more reliable forum to troll. https://ask.metafilter.com/117775/What-was-the-first-website...

Usually, slow bans aren't done for people who pay you money and add value to your platform.

Great point! I just wanted to name the technique. I am actually an active speaker and developer against all secretive content moderation actions.

Re: Tell HN: t.co is adding a five-second delay to some domains

#100

Post by fortran77 »

mutant_glofish wrote: post #18

I think that HN itself also shadow flags submissions from a list of domains it doesn't like. Try submitting a URL from the following domains, and it will be automatically flagged (but you can't see it's flagged unless you log out): - archive.is - watcher.guru - stacker.news - zerohedge.com - freebeacon.com - thefederalist.com - breitbart.com

There are other domains that, while not algorighmically banned, have an army of obsessive people who will flag any story from them if they see it.
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