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Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

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Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#51

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

Dalewyn wrote: post #48
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for that. I tried, yet still there are comment responses that literally do the exact thing I think is so annoying: complain sarcastically that copyright is stupid because it obviously isn't incentivizing the original artists here. No shit, we know. But whatever, those comments get pushed to the bottom, and I thought the top responses were really helpful (I didn't previously know about the details of the fair u…

For some additional context, the copyright laws in the US make a very specific exception for archival[1]. >(a)Making of Additional Copy or Adaptation by Owner of Copy.—Notwithstanding the provisions of section 106, it is not an infringement for the owner of a copy of a computer program to make or authorize the making of another copy or adaptation of that computer program provided: >(2)that such new copy or adaptation…

> Sony, et al. allege that Internet Archive's public redistribution of their digital copies of the records do not fall under the archival exception.

Seems pretty obvious to me that, just with respect to the archival exception, that Sony et al is correct here. The issue is not with IA making backup copies of these works - the issue is with making copies and making them available for free over the Internet that is the issue at hand.

Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#52

Post by dehrmann »

1letterunixname wrote: post #11

Most record players don't even play 78's. I had to go out and buy some borderline novelty player to play a few Soviet 78's. The whole point of copyright is it's a limited time monopoly that must end at a reasonable time, at which point works fall into the public domain. The problem is sheet music, music recording, likenesses, photography, and written works all have radically different interpretations of this, or have…

> Most record players don't even play 78's

Really? I don't know turntables, but I feel like every DJ wants a Technics one. The first several I looked at on their website play 33 1/3s, 45s, and 78s.

Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#53

Post by jonhohle »

dmbche wrote: post #15
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #6

While I strongly disagree with the length of copyright protection, after reading this and reading more about the case, from a purely legal perspective, I just don't see how IA has any defense. They basically just seem to be saying "these are old records, so we should be able to copy them. Also, our work is mainly for academic researchers." My guess is that they are arguing fair use, but I just don't see how that appl…

"Statement from Brewster Kahle, digital librarian of the Internet Archive: “When people want to listen to music they go to Spotify. When people want to study sound recordings as they were originally created, they go to libraries like the Internet Archive. Both are needed. There shouldn’t be conflict here.”" From the article I believe they are arguing that the intent behind the digitization is fair use, as you say, bu…

Shellac 78s are old but equipment to play them is commercially available and they can be played on turntables that support 78 rpm with the right cartridge.

I misplaced the 78 belt for my Pro-ject turntable during a move a few years ago and in the mean time found a copy of New World Symphony that I’ve been wanting to listen to.

Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#54

Post by Dalewyn »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #47
Dalewyn wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please read the linked PDF for a proper understanding of the context. You said you "want to know", so I presume knowing the circumstances of what transpired are important to you. Specifically, the suit alleges that Internet Archive failed to take the steps necessary for them to enjoy a safe harbor provided by the Music Modernization Act. In failing to take those steps, the Internet Archive failed to give the rightsho…

I had skimmed it when the torrentfreak article was posted, I didn't notice any mention of a DMCA claim in it but as I had skimmed it I wasn't confident. Whether they sent a DMCA takedown request is what I see as key, not what reason they can give for not sending one. If their concern was piracy, they would take the cheap and easy option. This means they picked this battle, not the IA.

Another commenter explained it much more eloquently than I can concerning DMCA:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37129304

Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#55

Post by dehrmann »

Isn't vinyl the most popular physical medium by sales right now? Sure, 78s aren't as supported, but the first Technics turntable I clicked on can play them, and the Wirecutter has a recommendation that plays them. "Obsolete" is a stretch.

Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#56

Post by dehrmann »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #6

While I strongly disagree with the length of copyright protection, after reading this and reading more about the case, from a purely legal perspective, I just don't see how IA has any defense. They basically just seem to be saying "these are old records, so we should be able to copy them. Also, our work is mainly for academic researchers." My guess is that they are arguing fair use, but I just don't see how that appl…

I refuse to donate to them because I see their disregard for copyright as a liability.

Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#57

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

acyou wrote: post #13
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #6

While I strongly disagree with the length of copyright protection, after reading this and reading more about the case, from a purely legal perspective, I just don't see how IA has any defense. They basically just seem to be saying "these are old records, so we should be able to copy them. Also, our work is mainly for academic researchers." My guess is that they are arguing fair use, but I just don't see how that appl…

Legal considerations are not the only considerations. What the court says is not accepted by all as the final word. And why should we need to confine our replies to a narrow and arbitrary framework of existing case law, when there is so much more at play?

Because so many of those responses are just wholly uninteresting - they're just "basic" as the kids say (or used to say? I can't keep up anymore).

"Rich companies abuse copyright" - no shit.

"Copyright is unreasonably long" - no shit.

"It's absurd to think copyright needs to be that long to incentivize creation" - no shit.

Putting a sarcastic or "witty" spin on the above types of arguments still gets the same "no shit" response from me.

I have not read a single response of that form that I find interesting in the slightest, or adds new information, or makes an insightful point, and I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment!

Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#58

Post by ianburrell »

criddell wrote: post #23
1letterunixname wrote: post #11

Most record players don't even play 78's. I had to go out and buy some borderline novelty player to play a few Soviet 78's. The whole point of copyright is it's a limited time monopoly that must end at a reasonable time, at which point works fall into the public domain. The problem is sheet music, music recording, likenesses, photography, and written works all have radically different interpretations of this, or have…

The IA is risking all the work they’ve done so far. If they want to archive copyrighted material, they should do it and sit on it until the copyright expires. If the hope is that the archive is around 1000 years from now, then what’s the rush to release these 78’s right now?

Also, they could have program where researchers register and then login to access the content. That would go a long way towards supporting scholarship fair use. They wouldn't even have to be strict about joining especially for something niche like this.

Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#59

Post by TheCleric »

kristopolous wrote: post #17

Why do we always defer to these copyright mongers? They're so absurd. Ah yes, preventing the listening of "Tip Toe Thru' The Tulips With Me" by Bert Ambrose & his Orchestra is a pressing national priority. Oh, the national economy will collapse if someone can hear "I Lift Up My Finger & I Say Tweet Tweet" by Stanley Lupino. I found their "sacred rights" implausible when the RIAA was hauling grannies into prison 20 ye…

> Oh, the national economy will collapse if someone can hear "I Lift Up My Finger & I Say Tweet Tweet" by Stanley Lupino.

Elon will just sue to force them to rename it "I Lift Up My Finger & I Say X X"

Re: Internet Archive responds to recording industry lawsuit targeting obsolete media

#60

Post by thristian »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #29

I really want to know if the record labels tried a DMCA takedown request. Normally IA follows those, I can't determine if one was sent and the IA ignored for some reason or if the record labels purposely chose a different manner of attack. One of the stories mentioned something about an ignored cease and desist, but that seems like a separate thing.

A DMCA takedown is a tool for a very specific situation, where a small-time, difficult-to-identify, near-anonymous user uploads copyrighted content to a third-party, big-time, easy-to-identify host. The copyright owner would prefer to sue the original uploader, but suing the host is a lot easier, so the host is strongly encouraged to obey the DMCA takedown as quickly as possible.

In this case, the uploads were done by the Internet Archive itself, not by a near-anonymous user. So there's no point to sending a DMCA takedown - the copyright owner already knows the identity of the original uploader, they're easy-to-identify and they have money to pay damages. Therefore, they're just suing the IA directly.

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