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The Cuts at WVU

community.wvu.edu

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Re: The Cuts at WVU

#81

Post by agar »

TexanFeller wrote: post #75
agar wrote: post #44

Speaking as a parent, the state of higher education is shocking. Costs of $300,000 for a 4-year degree ($75K/year for tuition, fees, and housing) is not just possible, it's essentially the norm for many schools that aren't even top-tier. Even state schools will run about $200,000, all-in. God forbid you have more than one child. Universities tout their need-based financial aid, but the cut off is often far below the…

In my state UT is highly ranked nationally for many programs and estimated costs are $33k/yr to study engineering, or $130k total(source: https://admissions.utexas.edu/cost-aid/cost-tuition-rates/ ). That's for a great school in one of the most expensive cities in the state. The largest component of that is $13k living expenses which you would spend anyway if not attending. If you want lower living costs you can atte…

Of course there are options; there's community college, transferring, less prestigious schools, etc.

However, it sucks to tell your kid that worked their ass off their whole life that they can't go to their first choice schools because of administrative mismanagement. Read the WSJ article that is linked elsewhere to see the systemic issues facing higher education. It's bleak.

"Congratulations, you got into Rice! Can I interest you in University of North Texas instead?"

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#82

Post by nemo44x »

kstrauser wrote: post #74
nemo44x wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you missed the entire point. Botany is great and important for some exceptionally talented person. The kind of kid that gets scholarship to a top university because they’re super smart and conscientious. These people will make a difference. It’s pointless for a middle class kid of average or even slightly above average ability with nothing to fall back on. These people need to make a living. Once you’re earni…

You have a poor grasp on what a botanist is, why we need them, and how a kid might end up on that track. Your claim is directly analogous to “study physics on your own once you have a real job”. The notion that only the wealthy should be able to pursue critical fields is dystopian as hell. I’m not a botanist. I don’t even know that I know any. I bought a cartful of their research at the supermarket today, though.

Unless you’re exceptional. You keep leaving that part out. There’s a parallel gradient of ability and practicality.

Has to do more with ability than wealth - although wealth lets you do w/e because you’re rich.

There’s reality and there’s how it “ought to be”. You’re stuck on that. Dystopian is millions of people with massive debt and unable to act on what they paid for it.

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#83

Post by agar »

ecshafer wrote: post #51
agar wrote: post #44

Speaking as a parent, the state of higher education is shocking. Costs of $300,000 for a 4-year degree ($75K/year for tuition, fees, and housing) is not just possible, it's essentially the norm for many schools that aren't even top-tier. Even state schools will run about $200,000, all-in. God forbid you have more than one child. Universities tout their need-based financial aid, but the cut off is often far below the…

In 2008 the “expensive universities” were $40-45k a year all in. Now they are $80k a year all in. Outside of computer science, high finance, and management consulting… who is paying enough to warrant a $320k degree? And even then it’s pushing it…

This is exactly right.

It also forces 18 year-olds to commit to a high $ major on day 1, then stick with it no matter what. What if you're undecided, but still want to be in a good university while you figure it out? What if you realize you hate computer science but don't want to transfer universities? These would be horrible causes of anxiety, stress, and burn-out.

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#84

Post by jtriangle »

7speter wrote: post #78
jtriangle wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, mining is actually critical to the state and region, specifically coal, specifically bituminous coal, which isn't used for power generation, but instead in applications that need to be much hotter than what other fuel sources can easily obtain, like steel manufacturing, ~70% of which uses coal blast furnaces. And while you might want to replace those furnaces with something else, there really isn't a great way to…

Wouldn’t it make more sense to put he young bright minds to work at trying to make hydrogen cheap enough to replace coal for the steel production? Keeping people working isn’t really the problem.

Can't really bet civilization on something we don't know how to do yet.

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#85

Post by nunez »

From the anonymous report [0] linked here:

> Beyond the irregular manner in which she was hired, the most unusual thing about Maryanne Reed as a Provost is that she does not hold a doctorate in her field (or any other). The Provost is responsible for overseeing graduate education, assessment of Faculty research, and the administration of tenure, which is normally based on research and limited to faculty with doctorates (Reed herself was a rare exception to this pattern as a professor of journalism). A Provost with no experience in any of these areas is highly unusual.

As far as I'm aware, a Provost, or any academic executive, at a four-year research university without a PhD is super duper shady.

Imagine a Distinguished Fellow at Microsoft or somewhere like that whose previous job was a rank consultant at Deloitte. It's like that, afaik.

While Maryanne Reed, who holds an MS in Journalism, spent a lot of time at WVU (30 years as an assistant professor, which is usually the highest teaching position you can get without a PhD), her progression is still very unusual in academia.

Outside that, it appears as if WVU is being robbed from the inside.

I feel bad for the students.

[0] https://archive.ph/uhQi1

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#86

Post by SkipperCat »

BLanen wrote: post #80
SkipperCat wrote: post #14

Universities drank the kool-ade and thought that if they spent and unbelievable amount of money on administration, student perks and sports teams, that would generate an exponential growth in enrollment. It did not. The WSJ did a decent article about this a few weeks ago. https://www.wsj.com/articles/state-university-tuition-increa... It was hard not to see this coming. Everyone has been talking about how the benefit…

The article clearly states that the programs are financially doing fine and the cuts are ideological. So why is your comment relevant?

The author does state what you say at the end of the 2nd paragraph, but in the same paragraph, he said

"The reason given for this egregious violation of ethical and professional norms is that the university faces a dire budget crisis, and the administration has no choice but to cut academic programs in order to close their structural budget deficit."

And in the third paragraph...

"The story of how the university got into such a catastrophic financial position to begin with is a long and complex one"

I do not doubt the author's claim that the linguistics dept at WVU was profitable. I also agree with him that these decisions (sensible or not) are born from the massive financial pit they've dug themselves into.

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#87

Post by polski-g »

SkipperCat wrote: post #14

Universities drank the kool-ade and thought that if they spent and unbelievable amount of money on administration, student perks and sports teams, that would generate an exponential growth in enrollment. It did not. The WSJ did a decent article about this a few weeks ago. https://www.wsj.com/articles/state-university-tuition-increa... It was hard not to see this coming. Everyone has been talking about how the benefit…

Gen-Z is 30% smaller than the generation that came before. Universities should be better at math.

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#88

Post by nunez »

SkipperCat wrote: post #14

Universities drank the kool-ade and thought that if they spent and unbelievable amount of money on administration, student perks and sports teams, that would generate an exponential growth in enrollment. It did not. The WSJ did a decent article about this a few weeks ago. https://www.wsj.com/articles/state-university-tuition-increa... It was hard not to see this coming. Everyone has been talking about how the benefit…

The anonymous insider report linked within this article demonstrates that the financial issues ailing WVU are very specific to WVU and that other universities in its class are doing fine by comparison.

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#89

Post by nunez »

driggs wrote: post #25

Meanwhile our coal baron Governor is trumpeting that the State of West Virginia has a historic record $1.8-billion tax surplus this year: https://governor.wv.gov/News/press-releases/2023/Pages/Gov.-... And we're forcing the primary state university to gut its programs and/or risk complete shutdown over $45-million budget deficit, partially due to inadequate state funding. Why? Because - tragically - West Virginians p…

It's crazy unlikely given their sizes and endowments, but I am scared of Texas and Florida public universities pulling the same crap for the same reasons.

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#90

Post by nunez »

agar wrote: post #81
TexanFeller wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my state UT is highly ranked nationally for many programs and estimated costs are $33k/yr to study engineering, or $130k total(source: https://admissions.utexas.edu/cost-aid/cost-tuition-rates/ ). That's for a great school in one of the most expensive cities in the state. The largest component of that is $13k living expenses which you would spend anyway if not attending. If you want lower living costs you can atte…

Of course there are options; there's community college, transferring, less prestigious schools, etc. However, it sucks to tell your kid that worked their ass off their whole life that they can't go to their first choice schools because of administrative mismanagement. Read the WSJ article that is linked elsewhere to see the systemic issues facing higher education. It's bleak. "Congratulations, you got into Rice! Can…

UNT has a world-class music program, so maybe?
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