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The Cuts at WVU

community.wvu.edu

61–70 of 110 posts

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#61
post #38
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDIT: Others have commented that this is just that the # of students taking courses vs. the # of students in the major. The phrase "program enrollment" meant something different to me. This would make the 800k profit make sense. When I look at their actual numbers, his comments don't make sense: https://provost.wvu.edu/files/d/bf3ef02f-e90a-4e43-a316-d295... They somehow have 18000+ credit hours to their department i…

The enrollment numbers are probably for majors, i.e. enrollment count of 5 for the French program means there are 5 students majoring in French. The vast majority of students taking French classes would be taking them for general education requirements (or whatever WVU calls that), or due to other degree programs requiring a language class, or as electives. At my alma mater, the Philosophy department had something li…

Great clarification, thank you! Did not consider that option.

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#62
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDIT: Others have commented that this is just that the # of students taking courses vs. the # of students in the major. The phrase "program enrollment" meant something different to me. This would make the 800k profit make sense. When I look at their actual numbers, his comments don't make sense: https://provost.wvu.edu/files/d/bf3ef02f-e90a-4e43-a316-d295... They somehow have 18000+ credit hours to their department i…

Students don't just take courses in their own program. What we have here is 61 students majoring in languages, but lots of students from elsewhere in the institution taking language courses. Possibly because of a foreign language requirement, possibly out of interest... but I'd bet that a lot of them just take language courses to get an easy A.

Great clarification, thank you!

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#63
post #21

EDIT: Others have commented that this is just that the # of students taking courses vs. the # of students in the major. The phrase "program enrollment" meant something different to me. This would make the 800k profit make sense. Can someone help me clarify how they're getting to $800k in profit? When I look at their actual numbers, his comments don't make sense. https://provost.wvu.edu/files/d/bf3ef02f-e90a-4e43-a316…

Enrollment is for programs, but course credits are tabulated by subject code (not program). It's possible that students at the university taking foreign languages as actual courses (and not just transferring high school credits) count towards the credit (and revenue) total. You can see similar things in other programs (look at geography/geology) where'd you might expect a lot of non-major's to take a course in. EDIT:…

Thank you! Great clarification.

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#64
post #44

Speaking as a parent, the state of higher education is shocking. Costs of $300,000 for a 4-year degree ($75K/year for tuition, fees, and housing) is not just possible, it's essentially the norm for many schools that aren't even top-tier. Even state schools will run about $200,000, all-in. God forbid you have more than one child. Universities tout their need-based financial aid, but the cut off is often far below the…

Are you citing in-state or out-of-state figures?

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#65
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they feel they can bring in even more revenue from investing that money elsewhere then yes.

I can only imagine that you are trolling, at this point. You understand the concept of profit, right? Let's just do numbers here: * Option A: you have 1mUSD to invest into Department X. * Option B: you have 1.2mUSD to invest into Department X and you get Department Y for free. Option A makes zero sense, logically.

Not trolling. I'm not sure you understand opportunity costs. I have 5m to invest in a department. Investing that 5m in Department A and earn 800k in net revenue. If I invest that same 5m in Department B I can earn 1.4m in net revenue. If I invest in Department A I'm giving up 600k in net revenue.

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#66
I'm not going to lie - while it sucks for the departments affected, I actually think universities cutting tiny departments is probably a good thing and more universities are probably going to follow suit.

This kind of hints at a deep growing conflict inside of higher-ed - is the primary beneficiary the students and undergraduate programs, or is it the academic community and graduate program?

Having niche programs is only debatably good for students! While it may feel fancy to have some as feathers in your cap, the reality is that most students would be better off going to a college that specializes in their field rather than getting a sub-par experience from a novelty program added to round out "offerings".

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#67
post #7

This is a sick path to be on. Keep the money, plug kids into some other university's classes remotely. To what end? A school full of nothing but overpaid administrators, and kids all taking remote classes at disparate cheapest possible offerings?

Oh yes. I just commented on "market saturation" elsewhere - partly, this is very similar to what I wrote there. Initially, hiring some "professional managers" works well (and, relatedly, expanding sports programs, adding "amenities", etc.). For an individual institution, bringing in this type of "business-thinking" obviously generated results.

For example, with the amenities etc. - this was a type of marketing they could do! There's only one "Harvard", "Princeton", etc. ... and, really, for any school, mostly you're avoiding changing "market segment" (in terms of acceptance rate / more generally, the target customer... I mean, student, demographic), but, you can attract applications through various kinds of "differentiation". "Oh, we may not be , but look at this Michelin-starred food court we just built!"

But, there are limits. "Exponential" is not forever - locally or globally (in time &/ space). It's nonsensical. Yet, MBAs, and so many others in the modern world, expect and seek "exponential". This is not unique to humans, arguably, but that's a massive other topic I'll avoid. Ultimately, when a handful of institutions start, they get results. Then, others are basically forced to respond ... or get forced out of the market. And, you're left with a bunch of wreckage - including institutions getting so sidetracked from their core missions, you wonder why the hell they're still labeled with "university".

It was a frequent enough irritant the last time I was in a more academic setting (as recently as several years ago). Everyone kept waiting for a class to be announced as meeting at the football stadium. Many parents, students, faculty, etc. were annoyed. But, not the wealthy donors, the top admins, etc.

Let it collapse under the weight of business school BS, it'll be ... cathartic. All the business school nonsense, that was such a boon... turning around and biting us in the ass. Haha, it's the story of homo sapiens.

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#69
And the womens studies program has no cuts. They are keeping the programs they think are important - the ones that prop up their luxury beliefs.

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#70
post #25

Meanwhile our coal baron Governor is trumpeting that the State of West Virginia has a historic record $1.8-billion tax surplus this year: https://governor.wv.gov/News/press-releases/2023/Pages/Gov.-... And we're forcing the primary state university to gut its programs and/or risk complete shutdown over $45-million budget deficit, partially due to inadequate state funding. Why? Because - tragically - West Virginians p…

> Why? Because - tragically - West Virginians pride themselves on ignorance, consistently vote against their own longterm best interests, and loathe the idea of liberal higher education in all its forms.

I'm tired of people saying that people vote against their own interests.

Is it so insane to believe that maybe they have different interests that don't make sense to you or me?

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