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The Cuts at WVU

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Re: The Cuts at WVU

#21

Post by codemac »

EDIT: Others have commented that this is just that the # of students taking courses vs. the # of students in the major. The phrase "program enrollment" meant something different to me. This would make the 800k profit make sense.

Can someone help me clarify how they're getting to $800k in profit? When I look at their actual numbers, his comments don't make sense.

https://provost.wvu.edu/files/d/bf3ef02f-e90a-4e43-a316-d295...

They somehow have 18000+ credit hours to their department in a year, but only 61 enrolled students in fall 2022 which, means an average student enrolled was taking 310 credits? Or ~150ish if the 2022 credit hours is for both fall & spring?

My guess is that these are $0 credits. Most universities allow you to meet your "foreign languages requirement" by showing your High School transcripts, and then you get those credits applied to your degree. $0 profit. The later part of the spreadsheet clearly shows how impossible this is - they did not make $6.7M with 61 students' tuition. Clearly the spreadsheet is just a dumb formula multiplying by the credits..

So either they're somehow the most expensive foreign language school in the world, with 1 instructor per 2 students that folks are paying $50k+/semester..

Or their research grants aren't being accounted for correctly? (I don't know how grants work, I am but a lowly swe)

Or they're a wildly expensive department that almost no one major's with, and their research grants don't cover their millions in losses to the university.

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#22

Post by deaddodo »

tssva wrote: post #16
deaddodo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this was my first thought reading through this. It literally makes no sense to close a department that, after operational and administrative costs, is net positive while you are facing a budget crisis. Later on, the writer mentions an ideological split/decision on the chairperson's part. I wish they would delve into that more. Do the administrative heads feel that using outsourced labor will be more profitable?

> It literally makes no sense to close a department that, after operational and administrative costs, is net positive while you are facing a budget crisis. If they think investment in another department will bring a higher ROI it makes sense.

It's profitable and requires little overhead. Just do both.

That's like saying "I don't want a free PS5, because I think I'd play my Nintendo Switch more often".

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#23

Post by rehitman »

probably lot of money went to stupid gym, sport teams, and fancy buildings for cover of a brochure, while all is needed for these folks and their students to perform is a classroom with a blackboard, some desk, laptop, internet connection, and a place to hangout. That is all needed for 90% of education.

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#24

Post by dragonwriter »

dylan604 wrote: post #20
parl_match wrote: post #3

If their budget numbers are true, it demonstrates serious mismanagement.

Isn't pretty much any situation of layoffs/cutbacks demonstrations of mismanagement? Rarely is it a single issue that was unable to be predicted that causes things like this.

> Isn't pretty much any situation of layoffs/cutbacks demonstrations of mismanagement?

Only if you view the function of management as being to maximize employment at the firm, which the people hiring the managers generally do not.

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#25

Post by driggs »

Meanwhile our coal baron Governor is trumpeting that the State of West Virginia has a historic record $1.8-billion tax surplus this year:

https://governor.wv.gov/News/press-releases/2023/Pages/Gov.-...

And we're forcing the primary state university to gut its programs and/or risk complete shutdown over $45-million budget deficit, partially due to inadequate state funding.

Why? Because - tragically - West Virginians pride themselves on ignorance, consistently vote against their own longterm best interests, and loathe the idea of liberal higher education in all its forms.

(To be fair, the current WVU administration is to blame for letting this get out of hand rather than proactive budget cuts, but eduction should also be one of our literally-poor state's biggest investments.)

This cynical perspective has been brought to you by a lifetime WV resident and WVU Computer Science grad, consistently disappointed by my state's active rejection of progress.

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#26

Post by bsder »

silisili wrote: post #7

This is a sick path to be on. Keep the money, plug kids into some other university's classes remotely. To what end? A school full of nothing but overpaid administrators, and kids all taking remote classes at disparate cheapest possible offerings?

> A school full of nothing but overpaid administrators

Um, exactly?

The budget crisis is, in fact, easy to solve. Start by laying off administrators in order of highest salary (starting with the University President as he has clearly failed at his job) and continue down the path until you have 25% budget surplus.

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#27

Post by sgustard »

ethbr1 wrote: post #11

For reference, here are all the proposed WVU cuts by dept (~7.25% total faculty reduction): https://provost.wvu.edu/files/d/da8e760e-d129-47c1-b06d-5fe9... More context: https://wvutoday.wvu.edu/stories/2023/08/11/wvu-announces-pr... and https://provost.wvu.edu/academic-transformation/academic-pro...

"For example, Mining Engineering has experienced a decline in enrollment, yet this area is critical to the state and the region, and there is unmet occupational demand. Also experiencing similar challenges is the Petroleum and Natural Gas program"

Very interesting. The politicians of West Virginia want to prop up the oil and mining industries. Young people do not want careers that destroy the planet. So the solution is: eliminate World Languages?

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#28

Post by silisili »

rjbwork wrote: post #12
silisili wrote: post #7

This is a sick path to be on. Keep the money, plug kids into some other university's classes remotely. To what end? A school full of nothing but overpaid administrators, and kids all taking remote classes at disparate cheapest possible offerings?

I mean, that is kind of the end game of all of this, isn't it? Crank up the prices, rent seek, get your bag, destroy the underlying product in pursuit of personal enrichment. Higher education seems to be lagging the vulture capitalism of the 80's/90's by a couple of decades, but boy it does seem like it's here.

Fair point. I guess it has the bonus effect of pulling the ladder up. Don't have to worry about some pesky young, well educated person taking your job or competing for future offerings...

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#29

Post by legitster »

parl_match wrote: post #3

If their budget numbers are true, it demonstrates serious mismanagement.

The requirements for the provost department are that the department had to make above $1 million in external grants annually to be exempt from review. https://provost.wvu.edu/academic-transformation/academic-pro...

Tiny programs with not a lot of student interest did not make the cut.

Re: The Cuts at WVU

#30

Post by legitster »

codemac wrote: post #17
parl_match wrote: post #3

If their budget numbers are true, it demonstrates serious mismanagement.

EDIT: Others have commented that this is just that the # of students taking courses vs. the # of students in the major. The phrase "program enrollment" meant something different to me. This would make the 800k profit make sense. When I look at their actual numbers, his comments don't make sense: https://provost.wvu.edu/files/d/bf3ef02f-e90a-4e43-a316-d295... They somehow have 18000+ credit hours to their department i…

Yeah, the student to teacher ratio was telling. With 30 something faculty it was only 2?
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