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Ask HN: How do you look for jobs in 2023?

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Re: Ask HN: How do you look for jobs in 2023?

#281

Post by red-iron-pine »

caminante wrote: post #206
joshuamcginnis wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UPS is paying $170K on average per driver this year per renegotiated contracts. True, like any job, you start off on the lower side, but unlike other companies, UPS pay begins going way up after just a year and that doesn't include the incredible amount of overtime available to even new drivers. You don't need to pull in large contracts or even be the business owner of a skilled-trade to do well. Literally every trad…

From my research, $170k is a headline number to make the unions and UPS sound like they're getting and giving a great deal. The fine print [0] is more like $92k base plus pension, overtime, medical benefits, and other items that have value, but aren't exactly going into UPS driver pockets. [0] https://www.distractify.com/p/ups-driver-explains-ups-170k-p...

and before the regular internet chuds come out...

"front loaded costs" are generally 50-100% of salary. so a fully front loaded worker making $100k would have an extra $50k-$100k in bennies and associated costs on them. that number goes out the window for SWE6 / Director / Executives, but is generally a safe ballpark otherwise.

given that meterstick, the 170 / 92k number makes sense.

For context, keep in mind that the poverty line in San Fran for an individual is $104k

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/low-income-media....

> San Francisco, San Mateo and Marin counties have each had low-income thresholds greater than $100,000 for a single person since 2021, when the limit for each county increased from $97,600 to $102,450. For the past two years, the number rose to $104,400.

Re: Ask HN: How do you look for jobs in 2023?

#282

Post by red-iron-pine »

austin-cheney wrote: post #251

I just figure I must be doing something wrong. Of all maybe 2 people capable of full time commute to an office in my town with a top secret clearance, 10 years experience with Node.js, and a CASP or CISSP I still can’t get invited to an interview for a job where those are the minimum mandatory requirements.

fix that resume mon ami. CISSP and TS means you're in demand, so it's gotta be the ATS or else something wonky w/ the resume

Re: Ask HN: How do you look for jobs in 2023?

#283

Post by red-iron-pine »

IshKebab wrote: post #101
akudha wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every recruiter I have interacted with, in the last decade, has been nasty individuals. Changing my resume without my knowledge, stealing my wages (been fighting two years now, to get it back), paying late consistently (we are talking 4-6 months late, on top of net60) and above all - lying about everything, even silly things that don’t make sense and are easy to verify. Maybe it is just my dumb luck that I attract sh…

Sounds like UK recruiters work differently to American ones. I don't understand how they would steal your wages. They don't pay you in the UK.

usually you're hired by the headhunting firm for a short period, e.g. 6 months, sometimes more or less. you work for the headhunters, your paycheck and insurance is through them, you just work on site / for the other org.

in 6 months if the other org likes you they can hire you on, or if they don't they can just say "get me a new one", etc. in some cases, like you know its a 2 year project, you just stay on for 2 years.

but that means the headhunters are taking 10-30% of what would otherwise be a full-time salary.

lowers the risk for the other org.

Re: Ask HN: How do you look for jobs in 2023?

#284

Post by jokethrowaway »

teirce wrote: post #16
frfl wrote: post #8

Bit of a tangent, but what has been everyone's experience so far in 2023 trying to find a new job? I got really interested in this and have been passively researching it (HN, reddit posts). My conclusion, so far, is unless you've got strong connections it's hard right now to find a job. Most job posting, as OP mentions get hundreds if not thousands of applications. Other times, I've personally also notice, candidates…

Been looking since about February. I've probably sent out at least a hundred apps for positions I was interested in and met qualifications for. I think I've made it to a recruiter screen around ~10 times, and I've had less than 5 actual interviews follow. I have 6+ years in industry, 4 and some change of which were FAANG (which everyone believes is a golden ticket into any company). And I can't even get an interview.…

There's definitely a bias in the interviewing process when someone is ex fang, everybody wants to have a FANG in team to brag about it. At the same time we try to keep the interview objective: we want someone who is nice to work with.

A quick tip:

When interviewing engineers I noticed that ex FANGs tend to fail the soft sides of the interview.

The type of interviews we do are relatively easy coding exercise (implement a frontend in react to do X, implement an API, fix an existing codebase). It's way easier than any fang exercise.

The core is not really getting the exercise 100% right (bugs may creep in, especially in a stressful situation), as long as you can prove you know how to work with some (=any) frontend or backend technology and reason about your code.

Something else we evaluate is how well they work with the interviewer to solve the problem.

From my experience FANGs people tend to be great problem solvers, but poor coworkers. Try to fine-tune that in your next interview!

Best of luck!

Re: Ask HN: How do you look for jobs in 2023?

#285

Post by jokethrowaway »

jitl wrote: post #44
teirce wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Been looking since about February. I've probably sent out at least a hundred apps for positions I was interested in and met qualifications for. I think I've made it to a recruiter screen around ~10 times, and I've had less than 5 actual interviews follow. I have 6+ years in industry, 4 and some change of which were FAANG (which everyone believes is a golden ticket into any company). And I can't even get an interview.…

At this point I’m more hesitant to hire FAANG employees who are used to really strict guardrails both culturally and technically to keep them “on track”. Most startups don’t have the guardrails and need people who make good choices without the bumpers. Hiring a bunch of FB and Google people did not improve Airbnb’s average engineering skill, rather it sank because a substantial part of our population only cared about…

That's a great explanation for why Airbnb was pushing out open source torture software like their eslint preset (I still have nightmares about it) while having the slowest and clunkiest frontend ever.

I started using booking.com first because of how bad that website was working and I had the latest MacBook.

Re: Ask HN: How do you look for jobs in 2023?

#286

Post by zlg_codes »

red-iron-pine wrote: post #266
zlg_codes wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That assumption may not be correct, though maybe it is statistically better than a random Internet resume. Where would you begin? Just talking doesn't do anything for me. I'm not into small talk or chit-chat. I think part of it for me is suspected neurodivergence, since I have great difficulty following what other people are coasting on instinctively. I'm drained within an hour or two and get incredibly irritable. I…

you're not going to go to a networking event once and magically make new contacts and change your life. it may take time, esp. in a setting where there are a lot of presentations and less interactions. in a room full of aspie nerds, all of whom are kinda awkward, you may need to be the one who breaks the ice. think of small talk like the wheels on a plane -- it's there to get you up into the sky, or to land you after…

I appreciate the reframing here and will attempt to employ it next time, but more and more I'm discovering that I just don't gel with people, even within my own interests. There's something 'missing' in me that others interpret as permission to mistreat or attack.

Re: Ask HN: How do you look for jobs in 2023?

#287

Post by majesticglue »

araes wrote: post #142
jitl wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point I’m more hesitant to hire FAANG employees who are used to really strict guardrails both culturally and technically to keep them “on track”. Most startups don’t have the guardrails and need people who make good choices without the bumpers. Hiring a bunch of FB and Google people did not improve Airbnb’s average engineering skill, rather it sank because a substantial part of our population only cared about…

Interesting from a couple perspectives (taking the above as honest about AirBNB). Confirms a bit about what's been weird with the economy and hiring. From the man on the street's perspective (and apparently teirc's view above), FAANG work is where you want to go, and what you want to have on your resume. Per the quote, "a golden ticket". Pretty much all the news talks about. However, if you talk to the rest of the te…

I've heard of people who had terrible experiences with ex Amazon engineers. I've met a few of them, and not the greatest group of people to work with. Of course I'm stereotyping a very large company so take it with a grain of salt.

Re: Ask HN: How do you look for jobs in 2023?

#289

Post by rushils »

igloopan wrote: post #11

In the sense that it's primarily startups, YCombinator's workatastartup and Wellfound's job board are similar to the "Who is hiring?" threads, so you might have more success with those in terms of replies. Though as someone applying for 2024 New Grad positions neither seem particularly great for that, unfortunately.

If you are applying to new grad position, highly recommend checking out https://simplify.jobs/

Re: Ask HN: How do you look for jobs in 2023?

#290

Post by jokethrowaway »

tetris11 wrote: post #13
wskinner wrote: post #4

1. Make friends with people at work 2. Eventually, some of those people will get new jobs, and they can refer you to their new employer (and vice versa). 3. Repeat for a few cycles and you have a network full of potential job opportunities without ever going through a job board.

4. Never burn any bridges. That boss or coworker you refuse to work with can and will actively block you in future employment possibilities. Also know that if that person is making your entire life hell, you might just need other things happening in your life to make your life more varied. Smile to the end (if you can).

There's an ex coworker that comes to mind. He was the typical wishy washy dude talking a lot and doing nothing all day and then crying to management of how much he was working. I was managing a nightmare team and teaching tech workshops inside the company. We never worked together.

I never liked the dude much but I was trying to get his jokes though his thick British accent and trying to be polite.

Turns out he hated me for some reason and actively stopped a referral I tried to bring into the company. Years later I even offered him a referral out of courtesy which he didn't pick up on. Even more years later I found out he vetoed me from some company I applied years ago with no specific reason.

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