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Veilid is an open-source, P2P, mobile-first, networked application framework

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Re: Veilid is an open-source, P2P, mobile-first, networked application framework

#51

Post by some_random »

kstrauser wrote: post #49
some_random wrote: post #47

My view of CDC is that it's a long dead hacker clique resurrected by industry grifters, but I'd love for that to be proven incorrect on that. My biggest question is how the shift from techno-libertarianism to techno-anarchism with techno-dictatorship-of-the-prolotariat characteristics in the general space the CDC occupies will affect development. If successful, all kinds of unsavory actors will be using it, from chil…

That’s goofy. I’m not a cDc member, but I was online and actively building networks and network apps on the early public Internet before most people. I’m not thrilled that RWNJs are using some of the things my friends and I helped make, but that’s better than a world where someone can dictate that they’re not allowed to. Today I run a Mastodon server. Neo-Nazis can deploy their own, too. Again, I wish they wouldn’t,…

I'd love it if they stayed out of Veilid too, but if Veilid succeeds they will not. The needs of pro-democracy, pro-human rights protesters are very similar to the needs of hate groups, it sucks but it's true.

Re: Veilid is an open-source, P2P, mobile-first, networked application framework

#52

Post by kstrauser »

some_random wrote: post #51
kstrauser wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s goofy. I’m not a cDc member, but I was online and actively building networks and network apps on the early public Internet before most people. I’m not thrilled that RWNJs are using some of the things my friends and I helped make, but that’s better than a world where someone can dictate that they’re not allowed to. Today I run a Mastodon server. Neo-Nazis can deploy their own, too. Again, I wish they wouldn’t,…

I'd love it if they stayed out of Veilid too, but if Veilid succeeds they will not. The needs of pro-democracy, pro-human rights protesters are very similar to the needs of hate groups, it sucks but it's true.

It is, and that’s kind of my point. Vile people will use good things, too. I’m not willing to forego having nice things just because people I loathe might also like them.

Re: Veilid is an open-source, P2P, mobile-first, networked application framework

#53

Post by pessimizer »

some_random wrote: post #51
kstrauser wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s goofy. I’m not a cDc member, but I was online and actively building networks and network apps on the early public Internet before most people. I’m not thrilled that RWNJs are using some of the things my friends and I helped make, but that’s better than a world where someone can dictate that they’re not allowed to. Today I run a Mastodon server. Neo-Nazis can deploy their own, too. Again, I wish they wouldn’t,…

I'd love it if they stayed out of Veilid too, but if Veilid succeeds they will not. The needs of pro-democracy, pro-human rights protesters are very similar to the needs of hate groups, it sucks but it's true.

A lot of people who identify as pro-democracy, pro-human rights protestors are indistinguishable from hate groups. Most, if not all, hate groups think of themselves as the voice of oppressed people, demanding their rights. That's why they're always linking "Harrison Bergeron" and quoting Orwell.

Re: Veilid is an open-source, P2P, mobile-first, networked application framework

#55

Post by some_random »

kstrauser wrote: post #52
some_random wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love it if they stayed out of Veilid too, but if Veilid succeeds they will not. The needs of pro-democracy, pro-human rights protesters are very similar to the needs of hate groups, it sucks but it's true.

It is, and that’s kind of my point. Vile people will use good things, too. I’m not willing to forego having nice things just because people I loathe might also like them.

That's a very reasonable position to have! I am not confident that CDC holds that position, and if they do I am not confident that they will indefinitely.

Re: Veilid is an open-source, P2P, mobile-first, networked application framework

#56

Post by doctorpangloss »

cryo wrote: post #5

The choice of Cap'n Proto seems odd to me https://veilid.com/framework/rpc It is an interesting project, but I'm sceptical. Veilid appears to be focused on their implementation in Rust, not so much as reference implementation but as the thing itself. I was hoping for a W3C like definition of a standard, not "bound" to their implementation or Cap'n Proto.

To me, the choice of Cap’n Proto means the developer looked at a colossal number of RPC frameworks in order to understand why Cap’n Proto is the best of them. While these things are subjective and also I cannot predict the future (ie actual adoption), it makes sense that being really opinionated and seemingly unorthodox is side by side to innovating.

Re: Veilid is an open-source, P2P, mobile-first, networked application framework

#57

Post by kstrauser »

some_random wrote: post #55
kstrauser wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, and that’s kind of my point. Vile people will use good things, too. I’m not willing to forego having nice things just because people I loathe might also like them.

That's a very reasonable position to have! I am not confident that CDC holds that position, and if they do I am not confident that they will indefinitely.

I clearly can’t speak for the cDc or anyone in it. However, I’d be absolutely gobsmacked if the gang believed it was possible to make “privacy for everyone, as long as we agree with them”. Inherent in privacy is that you can’t know what other people are saying unless they want you to.

Re: Veilid is an open-source, P2P, mobile-first, networked application framework

#58

Post by kstrauser »

pthatcherg wrote: post #54

It's shame it looks like web clients won't be able to connect to each other p2p. If it supported the use of ICE+DTLS+SCTP or even ICE+QUIC, then it web clients could join in. Or am I missing something in the docs?

The intent is definitely for web clients to be full, equal participants with P2P connectivity.

Re: Veilid is an open-source, P2P, mobile-first, networked application framework

#59

Post by weld »

ugjka wrote: post #4

I'm curious how this will deal with carrier grade firewalls and NATs. I can't run torrent client on my phone for this reason and I have hard time seeing how anything P2P is going to work on user hostile ISPs

It can use another node that it knows about for hole punching. Some info here: https://veilid.com/framework/networking/

Re: Veilid is an open-source, P2P, mobile-first, networked application framework

#60

Post by remram »

raybb wrote: post #14
quaintdev wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably the way syncthing deals with NAT. I actually suggested Syncthing team to implement something like this few months back but they were not interested.

Do you gave a link to the suggestion? (If it's public)

https://github.com/syncthing/syncthing/issues/8423
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