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Launch HN: Serra (YC S23) – Open-core, Python-based dbt alternative

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Re: Launch HN: Serra (YC S23) – Open-core, Python-based dbt alternative

#21

Post by Karunamon »

rovr138 wrote: post #11
wolframhempel wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is open source in the sense that the source is open, you can go and look at it. It's even free open source in the sense that you can take it and use in your own, commercial project without the need to compensate its authors. The only limit is, that the project you're building with it can't be a hosted service version of the software itself - which is, what I assume, Serra's business model will be. I don't think th…

https://opensource.org/osd/ > Introduction > Open source doesn’t just mean access to the source code. The distribution terms of open-source software must comply with the following criteria There’s a definition. This isn’t open source.

Usage determines definition, not the OSI.

At the end of the day, Pure Open Source™ modulo one very narrowly defined prohibited use is good enough for everyone except product managers at large public cloud companies and people who want to argue about ideological purity. It provides all of the same benefits.

Re: Launch HN: Serra (YC S23) – Open-core, Python-based dbt alternative

#22

Post by sails »

I like that you improve on the underlying database error messages, as they are really unhelpful, and I think this is a great place to add value.

I've been keeping track of a few dbt alternatives. Dbt have opened up the market to this use case, while only partially solving the business model and maturity side. Here are the more interesting ones:

sdf.com (ex Meta team)

sqlmesh.com (relatively new)

paradime.io (more an IDE)

cloud.google.com/dataform (GCP only)

Re: Launch HN: Serra (YC S23) – Open-core, Python-based dbt alternative

#25

Post by folkrav »

whoknowswhat11 wrote: post #12

A quick note that the "open source" license they use requires activation and license keys that block feature activations in the "open source" software be preserved. This license was popular w folks like apollo who arguably hijacked nearly 700 contributors efforts w a license like this. Because they are using it from start at least that won't be as bad

> This license was popular w folks like apollo who arguably hijacked nearly 700 contributors efforts w a license like this. Because they are using it from start at least that won't be as bad

Which Apollo are you talking about? Only one I know is Apollo GraphQL, and their main server package seems to be MIT, so I must be looking at the wrong thing. What's the story?

Re: Launch HN: Serra (YC S23) – Open-core, Python-based dbt alternative

#26

Post by kermatt »

khaledh wrote: post #8

The pattern of reading from data sources to a Pandas DataFrame first defeats the whole point of using Spark[1]. Maybe it's ok for small tables, but you'll probably run out of memory on large tables. [1] https://github.com/Serra-Technologies/serra/blob/a7a80c77af5...

Moving between Spark and Pandas can cause type casting as well. For example the range of allowable dates in Pandas is much smaller than in Spark. We completely abandoned Pandas in favor of PySpark for this reason.

It seems unnecessary to use multiple dataframe implementations when Spark is already in play.

Re: Launch HN: Serra (YC S23) – Open-core, Python-based dbt alternative

#27

Post by albertstanley »

khaledh wrote: post #8

The pattern of reading from data sources to a Pandas DataFrame first defeats the whole point of using Spark[1]. Maybe it's ok for small tables, but you'll probably run out of memory on large tables. [1] https://github.com/Serra-Technologies/serra/blob/a7a80c77af5...

This is a completely valid point, we'll be changing the readers to directly read into Spark. Thank for the comment!

Re: Launch HN: Serra (YC S23) – Open-core, Python-based dbt alternative

#28

Post by jauco »

wolframhempel wrote: post #9
ssddanbrown wrote: post #5

Another YC launch advertising as open source while using a non-osd-adhering license (ELv2 in this case). I respect your right to choose a license that protects your efforts, but calling this open source will be misleading to many.

It is open source in the sense that the source is open, you can go and look at it. It's even free open source in the sense that you can take it and use in your own, commercial project without the need to compensate its authors. The only limit is, that the project you're building with it can't be a hosted service version of the software itself - which is, what I assume, Serra's business model will be. I don't think th…

I get what you’re saying. The term for that is “source available” though.

Open Source has a specific meaning to the people who frequent this site. And I get how YC companies a scrutinized more for vague and misleading promises.

What if someone said their app was free to use. And then somewhere far in the sign up flow, it turns out you are required to pay. And then the app developer claims “well, you’re free to use it, but you do have to pay”. It’s not that that sentence can’t mean what the developer says it does. But they should take into account what people will think it means.

Re: Launch HN: Serra (YC S23) – Open-core, Python-based dbt alternative

#29

Post by SlickStef11 »

folkrav wrote: post #25
whoknowswhat11 wrote: post #12

A quick note that the "open source" license they use requires activation and license keys that block feature activations in the "open source" software be preserved. This license was popular w folks like apollo who arguably hijacked nearly 700 contributors efforts w a license like this. Because they are using it from start at least that won't be as bad

> This license was popular w folks like apollo who arguably hijacked nearly 700 contributors efforts w a license like this. Because they are using it from start at least that won't be as bad Which Apollo are you talking about? Only one I know is Apollo GraphQL, and their main server package seems to be MIT, so I must be looking at the wrong thing. What's the story?

Apollo GraphQL is not MIT. Their Gateway, federation libraries, and all versions of router are under a Elastic License v2.

https://www.apollographql.com/docs/resources/elastic-license...

Re: Launch HN: Serra (YC S23) – Open-core, Python-based dbt alternative

#30

Post by dang »

ssddanbrown wrote: post #18
dang wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I put the word "open source" in the title, and am happy to change it if someone has a better term. (I'm not up on license subtleties.)

Thanks dang, "source available" is pretty common for licenses like the ELv2 used here.

As more and more startups are going open source, source available, open core, etc., I need to figure out how to do Launch HNs without triggering off-topic controversies around the term "open source". My problem is, there's no consensus among HN readers about what the term means.

If anyone has a suggestion about how to solve this problem in an accurate and neutral way, I'd like to hear it.

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