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Render nuked my entire account with no notice

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Re: Render nuked my entire account with no notice

#101

Post by rsync »

anurag wrote: post #97

We've resumed all services for OP. The tl;dr is this was a new account with no billing history and on track for a relatively high monthly spend. We attempted to authorize the card on file for the projected amount, and the authorization failed, leading to automatic suspension. This is obviously overzealous abuse management, and we will fix our systems so this kind of thing never happens to legitimate users. To OP and…

"We attempted to authorize the card on file for the projected amount, and the authorization failed, leading to automatic suspension."

Does "render" (whatever they are) own their own infra ?

If so, this is a weird response since, really, who cares what the retail monthly spend is projected to be when, on your end, it's just some ineffable, tiny portion of your electricity and transit bill.

Right ?

Unless, of course, "render" (whatever they are) is itself hosted on an underlying cloud.

Let me guess: you don't own your own infra ?

Re: Render nuked my entire account with no notice

#102

Post by madsbuch »

anurag wrote: post #99
madsbuch wrote: post #23

I have assessed Render a couple of times for work. Both. times they were just too unstable for production (in 2020 and in 2023)

What did you find unstable exactly?

their IaaS system. it hangs. this gives very bad CI pipelines that you have to surveil. also it makes, eg. Github actions, insanely expensive as they are billed. per. minute, and render can hang upwards of hours or unbound if not stopped.

Re: Render nuked my entire account with no notice

#103

Post by anurag »

spiralganglion wrote: post #100
anurag wrote: post #97

We've resumed all services for OP. The tl;dr is this was a new account with no billing history and on track for a relatively high monthly spend. We attempted to authorize the card on file for the projected amount, and the authorization failed, leading to automatic suspension. This is obviously overzealous abuse management, and we will fix our systems so this kind of thing never happens to legitimate users. To OP and…

As someone considering migrating from Heroku to Render, the suggestion that you'd suspend an account — paid or not — without notice is concerning. You said you'd fix your systems, but didn't specify how. • Will you pause the resource utilization, but still allow log-in? • Will you give notice?

Yes. We will find/build a way for customers to verify their account in these cases before pausing compute.

Re: Render nuked my entire account with no notice

#104

Post by anurag »

rsync wrote: post #101
anurag wrote: post #97

We've resumed all services for OP. The tl;dr is this was a new account with no billing history and on track for a relatively high monthly spend. We attempted to authorize the card on file for the projected amount, and the authorization failed, leading to automatic suspension. This is obviously overzealous abuse management, and we will fix our systems so this kind of thing never happens to legitimate users. To OP and…

"We attempted to authorize the card on file for the projected amount, and the authorization failed, leading to automatic suspension." Does "render" (whatever they are) own their own infra ? If so, this is a weird response since, really, who cares what the retail monthly spend is projected to be when, on your end, it's just some ineffable, tiny portion of your electricity and transit bill. Right ? Unless, of course, "…

We've chosen to run on AWS/GCP for now so we can focus on building higher-level abstractions that help devs move faster, and we've always been very public about it.

Re: Render nuked my entire account with no notice

#105

Post by anurag »

minajevs wrote: post #53

I had exactly the same experience with Render. I was researching where it would be cheaper and easier to setup my infrastructure. So, I deployed bunch of services to Render, and boom, "Unauthorized" and "This service has been suspended by its owner". Sent an email to support, got first reply after 4 days, and then silence for a month, until I angrily asked them what's up. No need to say that I will probably never go…

This is unacceptable. You'd be well within your rights to ignore this request, but I'd appreciate an email with your details so we can fix the underlying problem.

Re: Render nuked my entire account with no notice

#106

Post by anurag »

madsbuch wrote: post #102
anurag wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What did you find unstable exactly?

their IaaS system. it hangs. this gives very bad CI pipelines that you have to surveil. also it makes, eg. Github actions, insanely expensive as they are billed. per. minute, and render can hang upwards of hours or unbound if not stopped.

Ouch. We'll investigate and prioritize a fix.

Re: Render nuked my entire account with no notice

#107

Post by dizhn »

exitheone wrote: post #71
oefrha wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hetzner support is garbage in my experience, which shouldn’t be surprising given their pricing. It’s funny, if someone posts a Hetzner horror story here, of which there are plenty, I’m sure someone will recommend Render in the comments. Lots of services are cool until they decide to hit you.

I had the totally opposite experience. I have been paying ~60€/month to them for nearly 10 years for a root server and storage boxes and I never waited more than an hour on any kind of support email. And this includes a bunch of times where I need someone to physically walk to the server and manually do something.

This has been my experience as well. Though I want to make it clear that Hetzner does not provide managed services on these root servers. They will reboot your server, attach a kvm switch, and replace failed hardware. Maybe when parent says support they mean they need something else.

Re: Render nuked my entire account with no notice

#108

Post by js4ever »

beebeepka wrote: post #69
js4ever wrote: post #10

You might be interested by my similar service: https://elest.io/cicd We offer a similar experience to Render/Heroku but we do it on dedicated VM instead of a giant cluster with all the customers. So this means full isolation of your workloads. And you can deploy anywhere (112 regions supported and also BYOVM) We support 17 managed DB (including Postgres of course) and also 233 open source software.

> Full isolation. What hardware are you using? Asking since Intel just got hit real hard with Downfall - another round of speculative execution.

We don't have our own hardware, we use cloud providers like AWS, Digital Ocean, Hetzner, Linode, Scaleway, Vultr to provide Intel, AMD and Ampere Altra (ARM64)

So to mitigate Downfall, we rely on cloud providers infra.

It's still way more isolated than a giant cluster hosting all the apps and routing becoming a single point if failure.

Re: Render nuked my entire account with no notice

#109

Post by js4ever »

cpursley wrote: post #64
js4ever wrote: post #10

You might be interested by my similar service: https://elest.io/cicd We offer a similar experience to Render/Heroku but we do it on dedicated VM instead of a giant cluster with all the customers. So this means full isolation of your workloads. And you can deploy anywhere (112 regions supported and also BYOVM) We support 17 managed DB (including Postgres of course) and also 233 open source software.

This looks nice. Can it handle distributed Elixir/Erlang like Render and Fly?

TBH I'm not aware about their specific offering related to distributed Elexir. But we do provide load balancers that can be easily configured from the UI, from our api or from our Terraform provider.

Re: Render nuked my entire account with no notice

#110

Post by cpursley »

js4ever wrote: post #109
cpursley wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This looks nice. Can it handle distributed Elixir/Erlang like Render and Fly?

TBH I'm not aware about their specific offering related to distributed Elexir. But we do provide load balancers that can be easily configured from the UI, from our api or from our Terraform provider.

That’s not the same thing. In the Erlang world, the machines are literally distributed - meaning they are meshed and talk to each other (share state, etc). It’s one of the big selling points of Render or Fly over say Heroku.
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