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Every phone should be able to run personal websites

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Re: Every phone should be able to run personal websites

#401

Post by LeoNatan25 »

dividuum wrote: post #243
LeoNatan25 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you run the server, it will die if the app goes to background or the screen turns off. Hardly practical. Just because a port is open does not mean it’s “less restrictive”.

I apologize in advance: 'cat /dev/location > /dev/null & python -m SimpleHTTPServer 80'. Totally crude but works, even when turning off the display.

This just slightly extends the background runtime, not allow indefinite background execution. I don't think ish has the navigation background mode (or audio for that matter) enabled, as it won't be allowed by Apple.

Re: Every phone should be able to run personal websites

#402

Post by LeoNatan25 »

NavinF wrote: post #245
LeoNatan25 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you run the server, it will die if the app goes to background or the screen turns off. Hardly practical. Just because a port is open does not mean it’s “less restrictive”.

There are workarounds for that: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/xcode/configuring-... Eg if that terminal app is capable of playing audio, it can play silence to keep the app alive forever in the background. I don't mean to imply that this is practical. Any solution would still destroy battery life.

That's not allowed on the app store (Apple will reject apps that abuse this without a legitimate reason, and a terminal app has no business playing background audio or abusing location services). Also, the audio background mode is particularly bad for user experience, as it does not allow you to play real audio, because in toyOS land, only one process can play audio. Yes, this is the state of iOS in 2023. Garbage.

Re: Every phone should be able to run personal websites

#403

Post by sho_hn »

kanbara wrote: post #114
sho_hn wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, I love Termux. It's what makes my Android phone useful as a tool.

really? my phone is useful as a tool to: communicate with friends and family, do work via writing, reading, checking metrics, watching videos, and 10000 other things. and i live in vim on a computer. this tech-centric “i need a terminal and full access to the shell for it to have any worth” is pretty juvenile. phones are real tools for millions of people— the greatest technological innovation of the century.

From a dictionary, on the noun "tool": "something (such as an instrument or apparatus) used in performing an operation or necessary in the practice of a vocation or profession"

I was likening it to something like a screwdriver. I often describe what we do as making tools for others to live their lives and spread culture and civilization, so I understand your sentiment (although I think you are grandstanding a little). My comment, however, was personal and about what makes something a tool for me.

I'm also a fan of what phones do for people, and software in general; one of my fondest times working in software was developing communication/chat software and knowing a number of people who met on it and became partners for life.

Re: Every phone should be able to run personal websites

#404

Post by chrismcb »

soulofmischief wrote: post #351
cvoss wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When discussing human rights I've never heard an argument before that the ability to host a personal website on a cellphone is a human right. But, by using this phrase, you seem to be assuming your readers already agree with you that human rights is what we are discussing. As a rhetorical device, that may be effective at getting someone to back down for fear of being labeled as anti-human-rights, but it is not effe…

> I'd very much like to hear such an argument connecting cellphone websites to human rights. The argument is that individuals must have the right to modify their devices as they see fit, barring some reasonable FTC radio restrictions which are necessary to enable fair use. You can argue that nothing should compel a company, in a free market, to provide such a device. But the nature of human rights is that they must b…

And yet, can't you do that (modify your device) at least on Android? Sure, maybe it means jailbreaking the phone. But as far so know, that isn't illegal.

Re: Every phone should be able to run personal websites

#405

Post by eternityforest »

PLG88 wrote: post #383
eternityforest wrote: post #270

I don't think anything personal should be on port 80. Too much work! What I think we really need is more stuff like ngrok and cloudflare tunnels, in easier to use form. If it has to go through centralized infrastructure anyway, I'd rather someone else process all the traffic first, maybe even keep DoSes out, handle the SSL, etc. If self hosting is ever going to be a thing again, I think we either need that, or full P…

Lots of alternatives to Ngrok and Cloudflare - https://github.com/anderspitman/awesome-tunneling . What we need is more open source and permissives ones which are well maintained and easy to use. fwiw, I work on one in the list called zrok.io, its open source and we have a free SaaS version. I dont think (as the author suggests) that IPv6 everywhere is happening anytime soon.

I'd seen some of these but Zrok is new to me and looks like one of the best!!

> The private share is identified by a share token. The accessing user will use the share token, along with the zrok access command to create a local endpoint on their system, which lets them use the shared resource as if it were local to their system.

That's really awesome both in terms of function and documentation. Clear and concise about exactly what it's going to do, and exactly the functionality I was hoping to see, especially in something that also has a SaaS web portal.

Will there ever be an Android client? I always thought that what the IoT really needs is some way to just plug in your IoT thing to Ethernet, scan a code on its crappy little LCD, and have them instantly paired.

It looks like OpenZiti doesn't do P2P yet but they're thinking about it? That will definitely be a big deal, but at the moment it seems like it's already 100% ready for the use case of doing a personal site.

Re: Every phone should be able to run personal websites

#406

Post by ehutch79 »

pessimizer wrote: post #332
ehutch79 wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, it’s not personal websites we’re talking about. It’s hosting them on public facing servers on your phone specifically

"Personal website" doesn't mean and has never meant that you're the only person who can see it.

Generally no, and i don't think anyone was thinking we were talking about sites that only the writer sees? Otherwise what's the point of running a server?

Re: Every phone should be able to run personal websites

#407

Post by nmz »

vlan0 wrote: post #249
sillysaurusx wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I saw some statistics showing that the majority of people in the US don't even have broadband (speed) internet, let alone a second computer. Here's an uncomfortable thought: The modern day personal website is someone's tiktok profile page. And it's thanks to the fact that everyone has a phone, and tiktok just works. There's an opportunity to learn from this model, though I'm not sure what the lesson is.

I think your take hits the nail on the head. Most people have zero interest in running their own website.we live in a world where people have no clue how things work. They just want it to work and not have to understand how. People could change their own brakes and oil too. But how many folks want to? Not many. It doesn’t provide value to them. Just like a personal website wouldn’t provide value to them. Hence, like…

There's also environmental factors to consider in anything physical, sure, you changed your oil, but what do you do with the oil now? There's no electrical pollution in running a server.

Re: Every phone should be able to run personal websites

#408

Post by urbandw311er »

LeoNatan25 wrote: post #402
NavinF wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are workarounds for that: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/xcode/configuring-... Eg if that terminal app is capable of playing audio, it can play silence to keep the app alive forever in the background. I don't mean to imply that this is practical. Any solution would still destroy battery life.

That's not allowed on the app store (Apple will reject apps that abuse this without a legitimate reason, and a terminal app has no business playing background audio or abusing location services). Also, the audio background mode is particularly bad for user experience, as it does not allow you to play real audio, because in toyOS land, only one process can play audio. Yes, this is the state of iOS in 2023. Garbage.

Not true if I recall correctly, since around iOS 4 multiple processes can play audio simultaneously- it is only if a process requests exclusivity that playback from other backgrounded apps is stopped.

Re: Every phone should be able to run personal websites

#409

Post by vlan0 »

nmz wrote: post #407
vlan0 wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your take hits the nail on the head. Most people have zero interest in running their own website.we live in a world where people have no clue how things work. They just want it to work and not have to understand how. People could change their own brakes and oil too. But how many folks want to? Not many. It doesn’t provide value to them. Just like a personal website wouldn’t provide value to them. Hence, like…

There's also environmental factors to consider in anything physical, sure, you changed your oil, but what do you do with the oil now? There's no electrical pollution in running a server.

If you live in the US. Auto parts stores take used oil. As do Walmarts with auto service centers. I’ve never had an issue.

Re: Every phone should be able to run personal websites

#410

Post by yencabulator »

jeroenhd wrote: post #20
extraduder_ire wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why shouldn't port 80/443 be available to apps Because they're Not that I agree with it, but it is the existing status quo.

I know about privileged ports, they just don't make sense anymore. They were a good idea on a timeshared system with groups of students logging into their own shells because equivalent personal computers were unaffordable. These days, computers are used by one, maybe two or three people. If I, the only user of my phone, decide I want to use port 80, why can't I? Put this stuff behind a special privilege for all I car…

There's still a big difference between a system service binding to the port vs a random app binding to it.

Even on a phone (that's not a "server" in the traditional sense), e.g. listening on UDP port 5353 is needed to show up in mDNS.

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