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Symmetry in Chaos

paulbourke.net

21–30 of 59 posts

Re: Symmetry in Chaos

#21

I would argue that position-symmetry is not unexpected in a chaotic system. Symmetry means that one of your dimensions is redundant.

Why does it mean that?

I'm not an expert, but think about linear algebra.

you can write each dimension value in terms of time t(a) -> t(b)

x = sin(t) y = 2cos(t)

or whatever. if there is a symmetry, one of those equations should cancel out.

another way to look at it is, if you can always get x, and know y "for free", or the other way around, then x and y aren't really independent. there's some other thing, like sqrt(t) that's generating both values.

Re: Symmetry in Chaos

#22
> Chaos

I think there's more like a semantic slipping over this term, so that chaos ends up passing for another kind of order.

Chaos is chaos. It's a bunch of really random stuff happening within an undefined, undetermined space, with randomly variable means. Like a landslide is chaos. The arrangement of stuff post-landslide will be a complete, incoherent, unpredictable mess.

Today's normie "scientific" definition of "chaos" is what stands for "weird" or more accurately, ASYMMETRICAL.

More philosophy, please.

Re: Symmetry in Chaos

#23
post #15

This reminds me of an Alan Watt's talk on alternating levels of order and chaos in nature.

To add some spice to your observation. I read somewhere that "This statement is false" can act as a oscillator, a "clock" going tick-tock, at the deepest level of reality.

Re: Symmetry in Chaos

#24
post #20

These are awesome, but it would be nice to understand, even at some heuristic level, why they're periodic with the period they do have. Alternatively, what is a change to a completely periodic orbit to chaos with the same "periodic symmetry" that gives some enlightenment of where the chaos is being inserted and why it isn't destroying the periodic orbit. Does anyone have an idea of whats' going on, or references that…

James Gleick's "Chaos: Making a new science" will answer your questions and is a fun read!

Re: Symmetry in Chaos

#25
post #24
post #20

These are awesome, but it would be nice to understand, even at some heuristic level, why they're periodic with the period they do have. Alternatively, what is a change to a completely periodic orbit to chaos with the same "periodic symmetry" that gives some enlightenment of where the chaos is being inserted and why it isn't destroying the periodic orbit. Does anyone have an idea of whats' going on, or references that…

James Gleick's "Chaos: Making a new science" will answer your questions and is a fun read!

Could you point to the chapter or page?

Re: Symmetry in Chaos

#27
Also check out Jim "Chaos" Crutchfield's work, and the mesmerizing video feedback he made with his analog video processing computer that he built at the University of California, Santa Cruz for his Ph.D. in physics in 1984.

Jim Crutchfield

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_P._Crutchfield

https://csc.ucdavis.edu/~chaos/index.html

Space-Time Dynamics in Video Feedback

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4Kn3djJMCE

A film by Jim Crutchfield, Entropy Productions, Santa Cruz (1984). Original U-matic video transferred to digital video. 16 minutes.

See:

https://csc.ucdavis.edu/~chaos/chaos/films.htm

Citation: J. P. Crutchfield, "Space-Time Dynamics in Video Feedback". Physica 10D (1984) 229-245.

https://csc.ucdavis.edu/~chaos/chaos/pubs/stdvf-title.html

Chaotic Attractors of Driven Oscillators

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sq8Vu40Bw1g

A film by Jim Crutchfield, Entropy Productions, Santa Cruz (1982). Original 16mm transferred to U-matic video and then to digital video. 13 minutes.

In 2022, Crutchfield and his graduate student Kyle Ray described a way to bring the heat production of conventional circuits below the theoretical limit of Landauer's principle by encoding information not as pulses of charge but in the momentum of moving particles.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/lsquo-momentum-co...

While a graduate student, Crutchfield and students from the University of California, Santa Cruz (including Doyne Farmer) built a series of computers that were capable of calculating the motion of a moving roulette ball, predicting which numbers could be excluded from the outcome:

The Eudaemonic Pie / Newton's Casino: The Bizarre True Story of How a Band of Physicists and Computer Wizards Took on Las Vegas

https://archive.org/details/eudaemonicpie00bass_0/mode/2up

Re: Symmetry in Chaos

#28

> Chaos I think there's more like a semantic slipping over this term, so that chaos ends up passing for another kind of order. Chaos is chaos. It's a bunch of really random stuff happening within an undefined, undetermined space, with randomly variable means. Like a landslide is chaos. The arrangement of stuff post-landslide will be a complete, incoherent, unpredictable mess. Today's normie "scientific" definition of…

No, Chaos is the enemy of Control!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KF5NfzmIvU

"This is KAOS. We don't shoosh here!"

Re: Symmetry in Chaos

#29
post #25
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

James Gleick's "Chaos: Making a new science" will answer your questions and is a fun read!

Could you point to the chapter or page?

I have a hard time pointing you somewhere, I think you should start with the first chapter and see from there, it's a good primer.
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