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Ask HN: How do you look for jobs in 2023?

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Re: Ask HN: How do you look for jobs in 2023?

#71

Post by acdha »

ardit33 wrote: post #43
alexpotato wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Joel Spolksy has an interesting quote about this: "Third, and trust me on this, there’s still an incredible shortage of the really good programmers, here and in India. Yes, there are a bunch of out of work IT people making a lot of noise about how long they’ve been out of work, but you know what? At the risk of pissing them off, really good programmers do have jobs" From: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2005/01/02/adv…

Joel is wrong. The 2001-2003 timeframe was very hard to find a job, even if you were a really good engineer. There is a good reason Open Source development exploded during those years, as there were a lot of unemployed or 'underemployed' good engineers that had time to do some open source work while looking for a job. By 2005 (when that article was written), the market had already recovered, and what he said is true…

One big confound was the gap between national averages and the Bay Area. I knew a ton of people who ended up finding jobs at large businesses, higher education, government, etc. which they weren’t looking at during the height of the dotcom bubble. None of those places had had an easy time hiring then, but also that almost always meant relocating.

Re: Ask HN: How do you look for jobs in 2023?

#72

Post by the_only_law »

frfl wrote: post #70
the_only_law wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the job reports and unemployment rates at all time lows I think this is because the issues described are particularly to software right now. Unemployment is pretty low, but I see a lot more people complaining about barely scraping by or hurting financially. My guess is that it’s mostly crappy jobs. Particularly in my locality there’s a massive divide between rent/property costs and average pay. I was trying to do s…

/r/antiwork and /r/recruitinghell both have accounts of people being rejected from non-software jobs as well. Additionally, crappy wages and unrealistic job descriptions. Of course I read those posts knowing there's a certain amount of echo-chamber effect in those subreddits and a small number of posts may not give a clear indication of the overall job market. But certainly provides some perspective.

> Additionally, crappy wages and unrealistic job descriptions.

What’s interesting, is from what I’ve seen, a lot of stuff is paying a lot better than I remember seeing a decade ago. However, the costs, notably the cost of things you need to survive (especially housing) has managed to far outpace those wage gains in a much shorter period of time. Although that might be specific to my location.

Re: Ask HN: How do you look for jobs in 2023?

#73

Post by frfl »

terminatornet wrote: post #31
frfl wrote: post #8

Bit of a tangent, but what has been everyone's experience so far in 2023 trying to find a new job? I got really interested in this and have been passively researching it (HN, reddit posts). My conclusion, so far, is unless you've got strong connections it's hard right now to find a job. Most job posting, as OP mentions get hundreds if not thousands of applications. Other times, I've personally also notice, candidates…

I'm still employed, but just started looking for new jobs as of a few weeks ago. I've similarly had the generic rejection with every position I've applied for so far. I suspect that my biggest hurdle is that my resume isn't tailored enough to get through whatever criteria their applicant tracking system is using. Really annoying that I have to try and game the system just to get my foot in the door.

I keep track of where I apply and if I get a no-response or a rejection or an interview.

Right now, 70 applications over 2 months, I had a ~4% interview rate. Slightly lower than normal. July and August were absolutely dead. June I had some interviews. Fall it may pick up from what I've read.

I don't know how well tailoring works. If it's a special job, maybe it's worth it, otherwise, it may me more efficient to submit a comprehensive but otherwise non-tailored application. Maybe run an A/B test to see what gives you better results. You could also have a few pre-tailored resumes you can use for the typical positions you apply for (for eg Frontend, Backend, Fullstack, DevOps) instead of recreating one each time.

Re: Ask HN: How do you look for jobs in 2023?

#74

Post by frfl »

the_only_law wrote: post #72
frfl wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

/r/antiwork and /r/recruitinghell both have accounts of people being rejected from non-software jobs as well. Additionally, crappy wages and unrealistic job descriptions. Of course I read those posts knowing there's a certain amount of echo-chamber effect in those subreddits and a small number of posts may not give a clear indication of the overall job market. But certainly provides some perspective.

> Additionally, crappy wages and unrealistic job descriptions. What’s interesting, is from what I’ve seen, a lot of stuff is paying a lot better than I remember seeing a decade ago. However, the costs, notably the cost of things you need to survive (especially housing) has managed to far outpace those wage gains in a much shorter period of time. Although that might be specific to my location.

That makes sense. In any major city, where most of the jobs are, houses, rents, food, all the typical things, are well above what minimum wage pays so you're likely living pay check to pay check even if you do find something, even if it's above minimum wage.

Re: Ask HN: How do you look for jobs in 2023?

#75

Post by yieldcrv »

frfl wrote: post #8

Bit of a tangent, but what has been everyone's experience so far in 2023 trying to find a new job? I got really interested in this and have been passively researching it (HN, reddit posts). My conclusion, so far, is unless you've got strong connections it's hard right now to find a job. Most job posting, as OP mentions get hundreds if not thousands of applications. Other times, I've personally also notice, candidates…

I very reliably get callbacks and many unceremonious rejections after the technical round

and yet the very first job I interviewed at in person hired me, matching my experience pre-pandemic. No compromise on my compensation bands, as I was really questioning my world by then

But turns out the humans didnt change, the mode of interaction did and it has less inputs with different biases

Re: Ask HN: How do you look for jobs in 2023?

#76

Post by the_only_law »

epicureanideal wrote: post #18
georgeoliver wrote: post #10

I wonder what's a rough estimate of how many people find a job by first finding a company they want to work for?

Are there companies that people want to work for? I feel like the magic has gone from most companies.

Yeah I don’t think I could make a company offhand that I love so much I’d want to work for. I’ve definitely been browsing jobs and found companies/roles that look cool that I think I’d enjoy, but there’s I reason I’m not and have not worked for them.

Re: Ask HN: How do you look for jobs in 2023?

#77

Post by gidorah »

I'm a UK accountant, so not IT. But I never apply direct. I always use recruiters. I think the benefits are:

- recruiter usually only sends 2/3 resumes to employer, so better candidate-job match

- recruiter has relationship with the client, so is more trusted - recruitment is a sales job, so they want a better match.

- your first interview is with the recruiter, so less formal. If that goes well, they will make more effort to see your skills and expertise over other candidates.

- better jobs come thru recruiter. These are ones that dont get publically listed

- recruiter will pre-screen roles based on your salary expectations, so you do not apply to roles that have no salary. Saves everyone a lot of time

- you can ask recruiter more about the person the client is looking for, so know how to angle interviews and sole the clients problems

Re: Ask HN: How do you look for jobs in 2023?

#78

Post by nineplay »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #64
nineplay wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most single child-free people perhaps. "Move somewhere cheaper" is about as helpful as "stop buying Starbucks" for an out of work breadwinner. Moving my kids away from their friends and school is an absolute last resort.

I do appreciate what you are saying. And, I never meant my post to be a quick-fix. It may be that it would only work a little later when your kids are older. But it can still work as a general life plan.

I think you're making the mistake of thinking that you know what people want better than they do.

The attitude of "keeping up with the Joneses" is almost an urban legend. People are not moving to the suburbs and having kids and dogs because they aren't strong enough to stand up to societal pressures. They move to the suburbs and have kids and dogs because that's what they've done throughout human evolution. The person who thinks they can leave and live independently is the oddball.

Re: Ask HN: How do you look for jobs in 2023?

#79

Post by starttoaster »

the_only_law wrote: post #62
maerF0x0 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What feedback or retrospect have you gathered about why you're not making the final rounds?

Lmao do people get that? The only thing I’ve ever gotten after final round lately have been ghosted or a useless generic rejection email. Even when a recruiter is involved, they don’t seem to get that sort of information.

I usually don’t get direct feedback. But if you’re even slightly socially conscious you can usually pick up clues by not having great answers to interview questions. Seeing their face or hearing their voice express some involuntary emotion that says, “ah he doesn’t know this.”

I usually pick up the hints, read between the lines, and study up on those things, whatever they may be.

Re: Ask HN: How do you look for jobs in 2023?

#80

Post by akudha »

gidorah wrote: post #77

I'm a UK accountant, so not IT. But I never apply direct. I always use recruiters. I think the benefits are: - recruiter usually only sends 2/3 resumes to employer, so better candidate-job match - recruiter has relationship with the client, so is more trusted - recruitment is a sales job, so they want a better match. - your first interview is with the recruiter, so less formal. If that goes well, they will make more…

Every recruiter I have interacted with, in the last decade, has been nasty individuals. Changing my resume without my knowledge, stealing my wages (been fighting two years now, to get it back), paying late consistently (we are talking 4-6 months late, on top of net60) and above all - lying about everything, even silly things that don’t make sense and are easy to verify.

Maybe it is just my dumb luck that I attract shitty recruiters, I dunno. Maybe UK recruiters are better than American recruiters? Whatever is the reason, these days I assume the worst about every recruiter I interact with (I am very trusting of people otherwise), I am still waiting to be proven wrong :(

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