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A Blog Post with Every HTML Element

patrickweaver.net

71–80 of 88 posts

Re: A Blog Post with Every HTML Element

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One usage of frames I recall was for sites that were meant to act as an index of other sites, where there’d be a sidebar on the left with links to various sites that opened on the right. I think this was actually a pretty good use case for frames, especially back before browser tabs existed. It was nicer to run through a list of links in one window with frames than to jump back and forth through history or juggle mul…

I remember a search engine working like that, but I forget it's name. Dog something? It's ground breaking idea was, hey all these search engines kind of suck and you have to go to about 10 of them to find what you want - so what if you enter one search term on our page and we'll Iframe in the results from 10 different search engines! I remember everyone at my university using it for quite a while, then google came ou…

Dogpile was the first search engine I ever used. My dad had a buddy who was into tech stuff, who showed us how to use it.

Later I learned about AskJeeves from a cousin who showed me how to download emulators and ROMs (this would have been in the mid-late 90s).

It's funny to think how much of my early tech experiences came from in person interactions. Dad's friend also built the first computer which I owned, which belonged to my grandma until she got a shinier Dell pre-built for a birthday.

I was allowed to "purchase" that machine for the price of two free mows (so $40). This was a steal by any metric. It became the foundation for basically all my computer learning into my preteen and teen years and the centerpiece of my bedroom. I have many fond memories of kicking back in my bedroom with ZSNES or bootleg Family Guy episodes.

Idk that I'd really connected until today how much of an influence that friend of my dad's had on my life, just through a few simple acts of thinking the net was cool and sharing with my family.

Re: A Blog Post with Every HTML Element

#72

You can nest details/summary tags. I once created a choose-your-own adventure using it and posting it on our corporate intranet (I had a generator script to stitch things together. The actual text was only a few pages long.) The HTML was 5mb ... I broke a lot of browsers that day. It had to be deleted.

This sounds interesting, but I’m not following. Do you mind expanding? Specifically, how does nesting details/summary tags relate to 5 MB of HTML, and how does that relate to breaking a lot of browsers? Sounds like a great story, and I’d love to hear it!

The GP made an entire game in an (autogenerated) static HTML file. Most browsers don't have a 5MB single HTML as an usual target, and I guess not as a test case either.

Re: A Blog Post with Every HTML Element

#73
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should it be a part of CSS, that handles visual representation, and not part of HTML, which handles data, structure, and semantics? I wonder if a whitespace with a right aria-label could fit the bill.

CSS's display: none and visibility: hidden already affect what the screenreaders can "see." So it's already involved.

And getting sick is a great reason you might use the phone to call into work but it doesn't imply getting sick is therefor the way to run all other phone usage through. I.e. it changes the behavior of the screen reader because it hides the content of the document and a screen reader knows it doesn't make sense to read content that was removed but that doesn't provide any support for why content which only affects screen readers belongs in the styling language as well.

Further point, in case you still disagree whether it makes sense for CSS to include the ability or not: CSS supports pseudo-elements but that doesn't mean tags in your page should be turned into pseudo-elements just because you can.

Re: A Blog Post with Every HTML Element

#74
post #7

> Some of deprecated elements won’t render without some extra work, for example and are designed to be used instead of a , for I guess some kind of collage web page made up of other pages. The author is too young to remember frames, huh? :) I'd just link the Wikipedia article ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_(World_Wide_Web) ), but I feel like it doesn't explain it very well. So, to briefly explain -- in the ear…

One usage of frames I recall was for sites that were meant to act as an index of other sites, where there’d be a sidebar on the left with links to various sites that opened on the right. I think this was actually a pretty good use case for frames, especially back before browser tabs existed. It was nicer to run through a list of links in one window with frames than to jump back and forth through history or juggle mul…

This reminds me of “frame buster” JavaScript. It was a piece of JS that goes in the site to combat above mentioned behavior and “freed” your webpages from someone else’s content frame.

Re: A Blog Post with Every HTML Element

#75
post #65

Has anyone ever encountered a real world scenario where you reached ?

One of many things that irk me, like why limit to 1-6 instead of allowing an attribute for arbitrary size, eg

You can go beyond 6 with ARIA, e.g. role="heading" aria-level="7". I don't know what the limit is. I think it's challenging to find distinct visual styles for many heading levels.

Re: A Blog Post with Every HTML Element

#77
post #65

Has anyone ever encountered a real world scenario where you reached ?

One of many things that irk me, like why limit to 1-6 instead of allowing an attribute for arbitrary size, eg

They tried to make the the explicit number irrelevant and infer the level by the number of nested sections, so instead of:

    
      Title
      
        Section
        
          Sub Section
          
            Sub Sub Section
          
        
      
    
You could simply use repeatedly and keep the semantic structure of the former.

    
      Title
      
        Section
        
          Sub Section
          
            Sub Sub Section
          
        
      
    
However this was never implemented by any browser or screen reader and was finally dropped from the standard.

http://html5doctor.com/computer-says-no-to-html5-document-ou...

Re: A Blog Post with Every HTML Element

#78
This reminded me of when when I first learned HTML in around 1995… anybody else remember Kevin Werbach’s Barebones Guide to HTML?

It was basically a site that listed all the HTML tags and what they did.

That plus a text editor and early version of Netscape Navigator was all you needed, and you were off to the races to learn and experiment!

Re: A Blog Post with Every HTML Element

#79

I was trying to make a web browsing ai agent a few days ago and I was shocked to find that hacker news comments are implemented as table inside table inside table.

I was delighted when I found this out - my userContent.css to make HN more readable (make content have a limited width, set a 1.5em line-height and extra padding-top for all paragraphs). I no longer struggle to read HN on a wide browser which display 250 characters on a single line. Each paragraph is readable, and the paragraph breaks are visibly higher than the line-height.

While we're talking userContent.css hacks, I'd be delighted to share my snippet to make code blocks look like (simplified) Mac windows in case anyone else wants to play with it.

There's definitely room for improvement but I don't think it looks half-bad: https://i.stack.imgur.com/xcyoE.png

    @-moz-document domain("news.ycombinator.com") {

        body {
            font-family: -apple-system, "Adobe Clean", -apple-system, Helvetica, sans-serif !important;
            font-size: 11pt;
            color: #828282;
            background-color: #1B2835 !important;
        }

        * {
            font-family: -apple-system, "Adobe Clean", -apple-system, Helvetica, sans-serif !important;
        }

        * code {
            font-family: "Fira Code", "Monaco",  "Consolas", "Courier New", monospace !important;
            margin: 0;
            padding: 0;
            font-size: 0.9em;
        }

        code:before {
            content: "⬤⬤⬤";
            position: absolute;
            top: 5px;
            left: 12px;
            color: #ccc;
            letter-spacing: 3px;
            -webkit-text-fill-color: #ccc; /* Will override color (regardless of order) */
            -webkit-text-stroke-width: 1px;
            -webkit-text-stroke-color: #223b4f; 
        }
        code:before::first-letter {
            color: #ff5f56 !important;
        }

        pre {
            background-color: #234 !important;
            border-radius: 15px;
            padding: 30px 0px 10px;
            border: 0.5px solid #223B4F  !important;
            box-shadow: inset 0 0 1px #123;
            position: relative;
        }

        table#hnmain{
            background-color: #1B2835 !important;
        }

        a:link {
            color: #bfbfbf !important;
            text-decoration: none;
        }

        .c00 {
            color: #cecece !important; 
        }    

        .cdd {
            color: #768696 !important; 
        }    

        .c5a {
            color: #465666 !important; 
        }


    }

Re: A Blog Post with Every HTML Element

#80
First, this is a fantastic way to learn, such a great exercise!

It's also fun to see the author ponder some of the older and now unused elements, speculating on their use, when "back in the day" they were thrilling to suddenly have access to.

That said, handcrafting HTML through every rev since Mosaic, I don't like MDN because of retcon changes like "description list". I prefer original spec, "definition list".

To me dl, dt, dd, makes more sense to think of as "definition list", with defined terms, and defined definitions.

OK, description is broader than definition, but for me, definition is easier to remember the list (dl) has terms (dt) and definitions (dd).

And W3 calls it "definition list":

https://www.w3.org/TR/html4/struct/lists.html#edef-DL

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