People Drawn to Conspiracy Theories Share Psychological Features (2019) • Hacker News Board

Re: People Drawn to Conspiracy Theories Share Psychological Features (2019)

#11

Post by matthewdgreen » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 12:45 PM UTC

K0balt wrote: post #7

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #2

It's unfortunate that "conspiracy theory" has taken on an indisputably negative connotation now. Conspiracies do occur, theories about them form. More often, people and entities behave in concert without conspiring per se , and this could be because of aligned goals or beliefs, or simply regulations that cause corporations to do the same sort of thing, especially when they keep an eye on one another. For example, is…

Conspiracy: An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act. Insofar as 2 or more people have coordinated, colluded, or planned an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act, a conspiracy is afoot. In fact, almost all significant illegal, wrongful, or subversive acts include conspiracies to commit said acts. I think it is safe to say that the present sociopolitical and socioeconomic landscapes are…

Society is full of real, actual conspiracies and collusion that are harmful to people, whether they’re currently illegal or not. It’s just that the people promoting what popular media refers to as “conspiracy theory” throw enormous resources at distracting from those substantive issues by focusing on 5G, microchips in vaccines, chemtrails, and various silly theories of secret cabals running the world.

If I was one of the people actually benefiting from a conspiracy that extracts value from society, I would be thrilled about this. I would even work hard to promote it. I would even try to elect political candidates that support or wink at obviously-lunatic conspiracy theories.

Re: People Drawn to Conspiracy Theories Share Psychological Features (2019)

#12

Post by K0balt » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 12:47 PM UTC

matthewdgreen wrote: post #11

K0balt wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conspiracy: An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act. Insofar as 2 or more people have coordinated, colluded, or planned an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act, a conspiracy is afoot. In fact, almost all significant illegal, wrongful, or subversive acts include conspiracies to commit said acts. I think it is safe to say that the present sociopolitical and socioeconomic landscapes are…

Society is full of real, actual conspiracies and collusion that are harmful to people, whether they’re currently illegal or not. It’s just that the people promoting what popular media refers to as “conspiracy theory” throw enormous resources at distracting from those substantive issues by focusing on 5G, microchips in vaccines, chemtrails, and various silly theories of secret cabals running the world. If I was one of…

Exactly, it is extremely effective cover for people actually doing harmful things.

Also, that sounds like something a conspiracy theorist would say (lol).

Re: People Drawn to Conspiracy Theories Share Psychological Features (2019)

#13

Post by kevinmchugh » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 12:55 PM UTC

shrubble wrote: post #5

What's the difference between a conspiracy theory and the truth? About 9 to 18 months... Look at the censorship of speech by Facebook and others concerning COVID, done at the direction of the federal government as just one example.

Conspiracy theorists are maximalists, so when they take credit for getting something correct they rarely acknowledge how far they overshot.

Re: People Drawn to Conspiracy Theories Share Psychological Features (2019)

#14

Post by Amezarak » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 1:09 PM UTC

matthewdgreen wrote: post #11

K0balt wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conspiracy: An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act. Insofar as 2 or more people have coordinated, colluded, or planned an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act, a conspiracy is afoot. In fact, almost all significant illegal, wrongful, or subversive acts include conspiracies to commit said acts. I think it is safe to say that the present sociopolitical and socioeconomic landscapes are…

Society is full of real, actual conspiracies and collusion that are harmful to people, whether they’re currently illegal or not. It’s just that the people promoting what popular media refers to as “conspiracy theory” throw enormous resources at distracting from those substantive issues by focusing on 5G, microchips in vaccines, chemtrails, and various silly theories of secret cabals running the world. If I was one of…

Here’s a conspiracy theory: it’s not the 5G vaccine microchip fringe that’s the problem, it’s the people who make sure to bring up the wildest, most extreme oppositional “conspiracy theories” when defending their beliefs in order to paint all critique of their position with the same brush, even if more reasonable “conspiracy theories” are vastly more common.

IE, it’s not the rare lunatic fringe that’s the issue, it’s the people in your last paragraph. That said, I think this grace should be given to the lunatic fringe: they instinctually feel something’s “not right” and the rest is all rationalization and theorycrafting divorced from reality. If they had the education and abilities they’d be among the reasonable set. But human instincts honed by millions of years of evolution should not be ignored, even if the rationalized theories are nonsense: SOMETHING really is wrong and needs to be corrected. Instead of ignoring these people we should be asking what in the social environment is setting them off.

Re: People Drawn to Conspiracy Theories Share Psychological Features (2019)

#15

Post by ubertaco » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 1:30 PM UTC

Amezarak wrote: post #14

matthewdgreen wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Society is full of real, actual conspiracies and collusion that are harmful to people, whether they’re currently illegal or not. It’s just that the people promoting what popular media refers to as “conspiracy theory” throw enormous resources at distracting from those substantive issues by focusing on 5G, microchips in vaccines, chemtrails, and various silly theories of secret cabals running the world. If I was one of…

Here’s a conspiracy theory: it’s not the 5G vaccine microchip fringe that’s the problem, it’s the people who make sure to bring up the wildest, most extreme oppositional “conspiracy theories” when defending their beliefs in order to paint all critique of their position with the same brush, even if more reasonable “conspiracy theories” are vastly more common. IE, it’s not the rare lunatic fringe that’s the issue, it’s…

>That said, I think this grace should be given to the lunatic fringe: they instinctually feel something’s “not right” and the rest is all rationalization and theorycrafting divorced from reality.

Speaking as a formerly-"Moral-Majority-esque" Christian, who still lives in the deep red of the Bible belt, I assure you that this sense that "something is wrong" is _not_ a credit, depending on what the "something" is.

In the county where I lived as a child, the KKK ran the county seat as a "sundown town" as late as the 80s, and only when an Oprah special on the area drew public attention and scrutiny did the KKK lose (official) power. It remains a starkly-white county just outside one of America's blackest cities, and its overwhelming majority is in fervent support of Marjorie Taylor Greene, who calls that area her home.

To that crowd, yes, something is wrong: namely, the whites-only "order" they once enforced is now denied them by the force of both law and social pressure.

And so, they lean _hard_ into white supremacy and "great replacement" conspiracy theories, in pursuit of their racially-homogeneous comfort zone of dominance.

The feeling that something's "not right" is not a credit on its own; that depends greatly on what the "something" is identified to be, and what "right" means to that person.

Re: People Drawn to Conspiracy Theories Share Psychological Features (2019)

#16

Post by specialist » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 1:31 PM UTC

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #2

It's unfortunate that "conspiracy theory" has taken on an indisputably negative connotation now. Conspiracies do occur, theories about them form. More often, people and entities behave in concert without conspiring per se , and this could be because of aligned goals or beliefs, or simply regulations that cause corporations to do the same sort of thing, especially when they keep an eye on one another. For example, is…

> unfortunate that "conspiracy theory"

Ya. Some new phrases might help.

Something like the distinctions between science -fiction ("sci-fi"), -fantasy ("syfy"), and -fact (aka "science").

Just sounding it out: Conspiracy-fantasy, -fiction, and -fact.

Re: People Drawn to Conspiracy Theories Share Psychological Features (2019)

#17

Post by shrubble » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 1:43 PM UTC

kevinmchugh wrote: post #13

shrubble wrote: post #5

What's the difference between a conspiracy theory and the truth? About 9 to 18 months... Look at the censorship of speech by Facebook and others concerning COVID, done at the direction of the federal government as just one example.

Conspiracy theorists are maximalists, so when they take credit for getting something correct they rarely acknowledge how far they overshot.

Did you have a particular example in mind?

Re: People Drawn to Conspiracy Theories Share Psychological Features (2019)

#18

Post by K0balt » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 1:45 PM UTC

ubertaco wrote: post #15

Amezarak wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here’s a conspiracy theory: it’s not the 5G vaccine microchip fringe that’s the problem, it’s the people who make sure to bring up the wildest, most extreme oppositional “conspiracy theories” when defending their beliefs in order to paint all critique of their position with the same brush, even if more reasonable “conspiracy theories” are vastly more common. IE, it’s not the rare lunatic fringe that’s the issue, it’s…

>That said, I think this grace should be given to the lunatic fringe: they instinctually feel something’s “not right” and the rest is all rationalization and theorycrafting divorced from reality. Speaking as a formerly-"Moral-Majority-esque" Christian, who still lives in the deep red of the Bible belt, I assure you that this sense that "something is wrong" is _not_ a credit, depending on what the "something" is. In t…

That’s a good point, insofar as we should not give people a pass just because they have a sense of unease. But I think the parent comment still stands in that these reactions can be canaries or indications of an unwell society.

In your example, of course, this unwellness itself directly manifests as source of the unease. But follow that pathology one step deeper and perhaps there is insight to be gained?

What I am sure of is that we have left our sociopolitical and socioeconomic systems to their own devices without carefully examining their impacts for a long time now. This has left them rife with technical debt and exploitable bugs that some parasitic elements of society are using automation to aggressively exploit.

I’m not saying that engineering them will have a better outcome, but perhaps if we study them with real rigour it is possible that one day it might.

We would do well to remember that these constructs exist to serve humanity, and not the other way around.

Re: People Drawn to Conspiracy Theories Share Psychological Features (2019)

#19

Post by datavirtue » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 2:45 PM UTC

jachee wrote: post #9

dangitnotagain wrote: post #8

And then there is that guy that points out the conspiracy to supplant every suspicion that nefarious actors plot against the unsuspecting masses of all others. There are conspirators against your natural destinies. From profiteers looting government and the populous to secret social and political interests who thrive in the shadow of your refusal to believe. Incredulity, self assurances, and an indulgent delusion of…

All “conspiracy theories” are actually false-flag PsyOps, designed and deployed to keep the highly suspicious and intuitive distracted, while the actual conspiracies go unnoticed! (/s)

Yo dawg. I love conspiracies in my conspiracies. Do you have a newsletter.

Re: People Drawn to Conspiracy Theories Share Psychological Features (2019)

#20

Post by mannykannot » Sun, Aug 13, 2023, 2:50 PM UTC

NoZebra120vClip wrote: post #2

It's unfortunate that "conspiracy theory" has taken on an indisputably negative connotation now. Conspiracies do occur, theories about them form. More often, people and entities behave in concert without conspiring per se , and this could be because of aligned goals or beliefs, or simply regulations that cause corporations to do the same sort of thing, especially when they keep an eye on one another. For example, is…

The use of noun-, verb- and adjectival phrases, in lieu of either inventing a neologism or writing out in full a dictionary definition every time you want to use the associated concept, is commonplace in the English language, and complaining about it is not going to change anything, as it is more convenient than the alternatives.