Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

OpenTerraform – an MPL fork of Terraform after HashiCorp's license change

github.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 137 posts

Re: OpenTerraform – an MPL fork of Terraform after HashiCorp's license change

#111

Post by ckdarby »

alephnerd wrote: post #65
linuxftw wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I definitely underestimate them because in my last 7 roles I haven't used either. I don't know how far back 'modern' goes, but 3 roles were over the last 24 months (just started a new role) and none of those roles the companies used consul or vault to manage anything.

If you've ever done a credit card transaction or any form of dollar based transaction, it's using software directly built on top of Consul.

That is not the case unless you're talking about the underlying raft protocol.

Re: OpenTerraform – an MPL fork of Terraform after HashiCorp's license change

#112

Post by ckdarby »

pachico wrote: post #66

Shares were going down for some time, env0 (Terraform Cloud competitor) just raised 35m from VC for a what seems to be a good product... Hashicorp did it's move. If there's a community behind, the fork will live and, who knows, maybe many will start using it instead of the original one. It's all up to the community and substantial sponsors, at this point. I still think that the best way to compete is by having a more…

The writing has been on the wall.

They're burning $50M loss last quarter which is mind blowing considering they had a monopoly originally. Michael raised too much money and let everything go to his head and his leadership. The internal chatter I hear is pure technical folks know this is a terrible choice, but "leadership" is so pressured and desperate given the economic headwinds they're trying to cut out any competitors building on top of their success. They refuse to believe their paid offers are just not good enough.

Hashicorp had lost nearly all it's value in the space.

Terraform, terra..what? Pulumi is starting to gain momentum as the long term winner in the space.

Nomad, K8s is mostly destroyed their future outside of some very specific cases around smaller deployments and frequent disconnects with the control plane.

Vagrant, docker RIP.

Consul, coredns and the main reason to use it for service discovery is gone with any of the cloud providers versions like ECS or K8s.

Vault, Pulumi chipping away at the main reason why people buy it which is dealing with TFs lack of encrypting each value in the state file. There are still spots where Vault wins (but open source is all that is needed) such as issuing out temp credentials off of a "root credential".

Packer, lack of overall community adoption even though in automation with hardware it is incredibly needed. Piss poor documentation and experience when getting started with it.

Rest of the services I've never looked at because there hasn't been a gap with a lack of a winner already. License change just means company is dead in my future choices anyways.

Re: OpenTerraform – an MPL fork of Terraform after HashiCorp's license change

#113

Post by pachico »

ckdarby wrote: post #112
pachico wrote: post #66

Shares were going down for some time, env0 (Terraform Cloud competitor) just raised 35m from VC for a what seems to be a good product... Hashicorp did it's move. If there's a community behind, the fork will live and, who knows, maybe many will start using it instead of the original one. It's all up to the community and substantial sponsors, at this point. I still think that the best way to compete is by having a more…

The writing has been on the wall. They're burning $50M loss last quarter which is mind blowing considering they had a monopoly originally. Michael raised too much money and let everything go to his head and his leadership. The internal chatter I hear is pure technical folks know this is a terrible choice, but "leadership" is so pressured and desperate given the economic headwinds they're trying to cut out any competi…

> They refuse to believe their paid offers are just not good enough

This is the most important sentence, as I see it.

Re: OpenTerraform – an MPL fork of Terraform after HashiCorp's license change

#114

Post by jen20 »

cthalupa wrote: post #90
alephnerd wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've ever done a credit card transaction or any form of dollar based transaction, it's using software directly built on top of Consul.

I'm assuming you're missing some words here, probably "with Stripe" The idea that every credit card transaction or any form of dollar based transaction works on software directly built on Consul is patently false.

“With Visa or Mastercard” are likely the missing words.

Re: OpenTerraform – an MPL fork of Terraform after HashiCorp's license change

#115

Post by jen20 »

linuxftw wrote: post #34
robertlagrant wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why they're having to make these moves. How much value have they given you vs how much have you paid? If the gap is too large, they have to start locking some things down.

Do you think Google should lock down the go language and compiler, considering how much value they've given Terraform and likely how little Terraform has paid for go itself?

Terraform would have avoided years of stringly typed mess had it not been written in Go. I’d estimate that half the provider bugs I saw were either because of a lack of generics (and correct unwillingness to generate code), or because of casting empty interfaces.

The only advantage was static binaries, which not many other languages in a usable state supported at the time. It’s not even like there was an ecosystem at the time - HC had to maintain an AWS client for Go for several years, and similarly for Azure.

Re: OpenTerraform – an MPL fork of Terraform after HashiCorp's license change

#116

Post by jen20 »

ckdarby wrote: post #112
pachico wrote: post #66

Shares were going down for some time, env0 (Terraform Cloud competitor) just raised 35m from VC for a what seems to be a good product... Hashicorp did it's move. If there's a community behind, the fork will live and, who knows, maybe many will start using it instead of the original one. It's all up to the community and substantial sponsors, at this point. I still think that the best way to compete is by having a more…

The writing has been on the wall. They're burning $50M loss last quarter which is mind blowing considering they had a monopoly originally. Michael raised too much money and let everything go to his head and his leadership. The internal chatter I hear is pure technical folks know this is a terrible choice, but "leadership" is so pressured and desperate given the economic headwinds they're trying to cut out any competi…

> cases around smaller deployments

The size of a usable nomad cluster can absolutely dwarf the (pathetic) scaling capabilities of Kubernetes, largely thanks to the poor etcd API which simply cannot be fixed.

Re: OpenTerraform – an MPL fork of Terraform after HashiCorp's license change

#117

Post by mdaniel »

rahkiin wrote: post #107
mdaniel wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no, it and a ton of other things in their GH org are still MPL (for now): https://github.com/hashicorp/hcl-lang/blob/main/LICENSE including, confusingly https://github.com/hashicorp/boundary/blob/main/LICENSE which I would have thought would have fallen into the same "but AWS gonna steal our shit" fearmongering as Nomad, did to say nothing of the future in which AWS offers Managed Vagrant™ :eyeroll:

That last link clearly says BSL though

Well, my comment clearly was made before they made the change. I wonder if my linking to it actually tipped them off, or do they really have so many products that they couldn't check each one was converted?

Having this delay makes me now more concerned that they're going to "catch" more of the MPL ones and relicense them, too

Re: OpenTerraform – an MPL fork of Terraform after HashiCorp's license change

#118

Post by mdaniel »

alephnerd wrote: post #26
robertlagrant wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why they're having to make these moves. How much value have they given you vs how much have you paid? If the gap is too large, they have to start locking some things down.

Exactly this. Open Source software quickly becomes a tragedy of the commons because most organizations are unscrupulous. Look at how AWS destroyed the entire Elastic, MongoDB, PostgreSQL, Kafka, etc ecosystems by abusing overly permissive licenses.

> Look at how AWS destroyed the entire ... PostgreSQL, Kafka, etc ecosystems

Err, I think you need better examples, as the PostgreSQL ecosystem is doing just fine, and RDS doesn't threaten anyone's IPO price. Since Kafka is not only Apache licensed but is an Apache project, I gravely doubt that the Apache Foundation is going to IPO anytime soon either

If you want to pick on two other ecosystem casualties by the Big Bad AWS Gonna Steal Our Shit fearmongering, use Sentry and Sourcegraph as examples of "we want the community until we don't" rug pulls

Re: OpenTerraform – an MPL fork of Terraform after HashiCorp's license change

#119

Post by Coryodaniel »

macca321 wrote: post #109

I wonder if a non commercial Terraform Cloud "offering" like https://github.com/leg100/otf is "competing" with Hashicorp...

There was a thread on Reddit about this and the author got a response from Armon saying it was not.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Terraform/comments/15p2p32/impact_o...

Re: OpenTerraform – an MPL fork of Terraform after HashiCorp's license change

#120

Post by Proven »

ckdarby wrote: post #110
nunez wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how this affects Pulumi, since they were using Terraform under the hood for some things IIRC.

Pulumi itself isn't doing anything. The TF bridge is interacting. If they really want to remove liability they'd just leave TF out of the repo and shift all liability to the end user where the first step runs a package install that brings in terraform.

[dead]
Post reply on HN