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How I built a startup while working full-time in Finance

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Re: How I built a startup while working full-time in Finance

#51

Post by quasisimple »

jsavimbi wrote: post #25

> I obviously needed to find someone technical to build the website, whether a freelancer or a cofounder. Two jokers drop out of Goldman Sachs after a very short employment stint and hire some kid to build them a Facebook-based link-sharing game that targets emerging artists who have no money on the most garish website I've seen in quite some time and all he gets credited with is Lead Engineer. Not even Mr. Lead Engi…

I must disagree - not with the analysis but with the concept "you should avoid working for crazy assholes who demand blood while paying you peanuts". Now, I'm not going to say that living this life will make you happy, but you shouldn't think of it as "being exploited" you should think of it as "getting some other guys to pay for your education".

Technical skills in particular are in very high demand right now, higher even than six months ago, and they were astronomically high then. But it takes years to develop those skills, and taking uncomfortable, difficult work and living through it without visiting the psych ward (yeah, that's the hard part) is a notch on your belt.

tl;dr Life is a learning process, you can even learn from loser projects.

Re: How I built a startup while working full-time in Finance

#52

Post by badclient »

tensor wrote: post #49
badclient wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook-based link-sharing games are loser projects you need to avoid. Mark Zuckerberg had a professor at Harvard who tried hard to convince Zuck to stop wasting time on this stupid facebook idea and get more serious about his degree. Your advice to the developer sounds similar to the advice given to Zuck by his professor.

That's probably good advice. A startup is a bit like gambling and recommending that a student finish their studies rather than bet it all at the casino is solid advice. Zuckerberg made a rash decision and got lucky. there were many similar sites at the time and anyone claiming to know which, if any, would become the big social site isn't being very honset.

Good advice? Unsure. Safe advice? Yes.

I keep hearing the "got lucky" argument when describing Facebook and Zuck. All it shows is ignorance. If you study Facebook, you can seriously find very explicit product and culture decisions at each stage of its growth. These have little to do with luck.

I'd argue Zuck experiences the same share of luck as an average person does. It's what he has made out of his luck.

For example, a big evidence cited with the "luck" argument is how Zuck just happens to run into Sean Parker who introduces him to Peter Thiel. But the role of "luck" is over-stated: there are hundreds of people who run into Sean Parker. A handful of them even get introduced to Peter Thiel. But getting introduced or funded by Sean Parker/Thiel is not a ticket to a billion dollar company. There is much more to it having little to do with luck.

Re: How I built a startup while working full-time in Finance

#53

Post by quasisimple »

I find this post strange: there is no demonstrated success aside from having the courage to quit a job to pursue a start-up (which is commendable but very different from achieving success), yet the author appears to be giving advice. This feels like a captain starting a voyage who, a few days after leaving shore, sets himself up as an experienced person. This seems more useful from a historical point of view than from a practical point of view.

Max Levchin compiled a very nice list of pointers here: http://www.quora.com/Max-Levchin/answers

Re: How I built a startup while working full-time in Finance

#54

Post by a3camero »

badclient wrote: post #52
tensor wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's probably good advice. A startup is a bit like gambling and recommending that a student finish their studies rather than bet it all at the casino is solid advice. Zuckerberg made a rash decision and got lucky. there were many similar sites at the time and anyone claiming to know which, if any, would become the big social site isn't being very honset.

Good advice? Unsure. Safe advice? Yes. I keep hearing the "got lucky" argument when describing Facebook and Zuck. All it shows is ignorance. If you study Facebook, you can seriously find very explicit product and culture decisions at each stage of its growth. These have little to do with luck. I'd argue Zuck experiences the same share of luck as an average person does. It's what he has made out of his luck. For examp…

Luck is not getting kicked out of Harvard with your original idea that involves stealing a whole bunch of photos off a Harvard server: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Facebook.

Re: How I built a startup while working full-time in Finance

#55

Post by tensor »

badclient wrote: post #52
tensor wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's probably good advice. A startup is a bit like gambling and recommending that a student finish their studies rather than bet it all at the casino is solid advice. Zuckerberg made a rash decision and got lucky. there were many similar sites at the time and anyone claiming to know which, if any, would become the big social site isn't being very honset.

Good advice? Unsure. Safe advice? Yes. I keep hearing the "got lucky" argument when describing Facebook and Zuck. All it shows is ignorance. If you study Facebook, you can seriously find very explicit product and culture decisions at each stage of its growth. These have little to do with luck. I'd argue Zuck experiences the same share of luck as an average person does. It's what he has made out of his luck. For examp…

You can also find very serious and explicit product and cultural decisions in all of Facebook competitors, and indeed in all startups. Everyone thinks they have the next billion dollar company, but the majority do not.

All you are doing is looking in hindsight and using Facebook's profits as justification for Zuckerberg's decisions or to credit him with something other than luck.

You are defining intelligence, intuition, or brilliance based on success. No wonder your observations support your view, it's impossible not to.

As for staying in school, there are two very good reasons for it. 1) Learning is the only way to actually not be ignorant and university is still one of the best environments to learn. 2) Every smart investor hedges their bets. Every investor recognizes risk and that startups are risky and that most don't succeed. Founders are not some sort of exception. Thus, finishing school is hedging your bets. It's good advice.

I'm sure you deeply want to believe that luck has little to do with it. It's a nice feel good story. But you don't have a convincing argument. Everyone recognizes that various types of skills are important, but nobody has ever put forth a magic formula that will guarantee a successful business. Until that happens, we cannot claim that luck has nothing to do with it.

Re: How I built a startup while working full-time in Finance

#56

Post by badclient »

tensor wrote: post #55
badclient wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good advice? Unsure. Safe advice? Yes. I keep hearing the "got lucky" argument when describing Facebook and Zuck. All it shows is ignorance. If you study Facebook, you can seriously find very explicit product and culture decisions at each stage of its growth. These have little to do with luck. I'd argue Zuck experiences the same share of luck as an average person does. It's what he has made out of his luck. For examp…

You can also find very serious and explicit product and cultural decisions in all of Facebook competitors, and indeed in all startups. Everyone thinks they have the next billion dollar company, but the majority do not. All you are doing is looking in hindsight and using Facebook's profits as justification for Zuckerberg's decisions or to credit him with something other than luck. You are defining intelligence, intuit…

Until that happens, we cannot claim that luck has nothing to do with it.

I never claimed that. This argument's always been about "how much", not whether.

I believe luck has a small part; you seem to argue that it has a huge part. I argue that in light of all the explicit decisions that facebook made, the role of luck is smaller than you appear to suggest.

You state that other facebook competitors also took explicit decisions. Merely taking explicit decisions does not provide results. You also have to make the right decisions and execute in the right way.

Re: How I built a startup while working full-time in Finance

#57

Post by jsavimbi »

reason wrote: post #31
jsavimbi wrote: post #25

> I obviously needed to find someone technical to build the website, whether a freelancer or a cofounder. Two jokers drop out of Goldman Sachs after a very short employment stint and hire some kid to build them a Facebook-based link-sharing game that targets emerging artists who have no money on the most garish website I've seen in quite some time and all he gets credited with is Lead Engineer. Not even Mr. Lead Engi…

You have basically speculated the intentions of three people, the relationships they have with one another, and the outcome of their company all from this one line. Pretty impressive. It sounds like you've watched The Social Network one too many times. Constructive criticism would be of much more value. Further, it seems you are completely ignorant to the contributions that skilled businesspeople can make to a startu…

> you are completely ignorant to the contributions that skilled businesspeople can make to a startup

In this case, can you please list the contributions that you think were made by the non-technical, strategic members of this team, and why you think they should share in 80% to 90% of the company vs. the 10% to 20% that our esteemed colleague who actually built the feature did?

And I call it a feature because a one-page that tracks your likes and posts them to your timeline making very basic use of Facebook's API is a feature, not a startup and it certainly isn't a going business concern that may turn a profit large enough to grow beyond its current MVP.

Bandpage.com very well may be a product, but what we have here is a very basic implementation of the API and nothing else aside from a horribly-conceived design. I won't even mention the uselessness of the so-called awards or even ask what prompted the use of Disqus for a Facebook app. I guess those were all consuming business decisions that took a year to hash out.

tl;dr: Exactly what value did the layperson add to this thing?

Re: How I built a startup while working full-time in Finance

#59

Post by tensor »

badclient wrote: post #56
tensor wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can also find very serious and explicit product and cultural decisions in all of Facebook competitors, and indeed in all startups. Everyone thinks they have the next billion dollar company, but the majority do not. All you are doing is looking in hindsight and using Facebook's profits as justification for Zuckerberg's decisions or to credit him with something other than luck. You are defining intelligence, intuit…

Until that happens, we cannot claim that luck has nothing to do with it. I never claimed that. This argument's always been about "how much", not whether. I believe luck has a small part; you seem to argue that it has a huge part. I argue that in light of all the explicit decisions that facebook made, the role of luck is smaller than you appear to suggest. You state that other facebook competitors also took explicit d…

You are correct, I believe the risk of dropping out to do a startup is large enough as to be considered reckless.

We can argue about Facebook all day, as many have before, but even that in itself lends support to the notion that it was mostly luck. We cannot agree on and point to any specific idea, or combination of ideas, that lead to Facebook's success over others. More, we cannot show that Zuckerberg actually held any such idea as the basis for his actions. Targeting schools? Convenience. Targeting social? A common idea at the time. Using php? Convenience and a common choice at the time. Not all successes are due to some sort of genius. Many are just unexpected and happy results.

Re: How I built a startup while working full-time in Finance

#60

Post by freshhawk »

icode wrote: post #32

This reminds me of a startup mantra from the 90s: Eat like a fly, poop like an elephant. So far there is nothing. A website with a music player and a share-on-facebook button. But the blog post sounds like Andy already turned this thing into a billion dollar company and now bows down to the mere mortals to share the wisdom he gathered. On his heroic journy to fame and riches.

I didn't catch that but you are absolutely right.

I have a feeling this project is going to turn out just like those ones from the 90's did too.

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