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Python becomes a platform. Thoughts on the release of clojure-py.

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Re: Python becomes a platform. Thoughts on the release of clojure-py.

#11

Post by daviddaviddavid »

I'm not sure why the author would say that metaprogramming is "absent" from Python.

Do decorators and metaclasses not count as metaprogramming features? I'm sure that languages in the Lisp family might be better suited for metaprogramming than Python but the author's claim seems straightforwardly false.

Re: Python becomes a platform. Thoughts on the release of clojure-py.

#13

Post by DanWaterworth »

agentultra wrote: post #3

The idea of a python implementation becoming host to other languages is somewhat interesting. Python has had a good interop story with the vibrant ecosystem of C libraries and is pretty good at being cross-platform as well. However, I'm not sure Clojure is going to impress Python developers for the reasons the author states. Python has metaprogramming and it has an immutable type (the tuple). However, Python has reje…

Python has a quite a few immutable types, tuple, string, none, boolean, int, float, but they are all primitive types. Some of Clojure's immutable types are much more interesting, like the finger tree for example.

Re: Python becomes a platform. Thoughts on the release of clojure-py.

#14

Post by DanWaterworth »

daviddaviddavid wrote: post #11

I'm not sure why the author would say that metaprogramming is "absent" from Python. Do decorators and metaclasses not count as metaprogramming features? I'm sure that languages in the Lisp family might be better suited for metaprogramming than Python but the author's claim seems straightforwardly false.

> "Do decorators and metaclasses not count as metaprogramming features?"

Not when compared to macros in lisp dialects. The closest python comes is: http://docs.python.org/library/ast.html but lisp with it's simple structure is much less unwieldy.

Re: Python becomes a platform. Thoughts on the release of clojure-py.

#15

Post by rlander »

I'd argue that clojure-py is important for a different reason: Clojure is slowly sneaking up on every popular runtime:

  JVM -> Clojure
  Javascript -> ClojureScript
  Erlang VM -> Joxa
  CPython/PyPy -> Clojure-py
In a few years clojurers/lispers will be able to target multiple platforms with one simple language.

As a pythonista myself, I used to feel overcome with nausea just by looking at Clojure/Lisp code. However, Erlang was my gateway drug into the functional/bizarre-syntax world and now, after a few weeks (and two books) with Clojure I'm having a bit of an identity crisis: my brain simply refuses to touch messy-non-Lisp code ever again.

Re: Python becomes a platform. Thoughts on the release of clojure-py.

#16

Post by zem »

Interestingly, when I saw the release announcement a week or so ago, I thought "neat, but I can't think of any use I'd have for it". And then yesterday I ran across SimpleCV [http://simplecv.org/] and realised I could potentially use it from clojure, which would be really nice. There really is a lot of nice scientific/visualisation work going on in the python community and it is great to have access to it from clojure.

Re: Python becomes a platform. Thoughts on the release of clojure-py.

#17

Post by edwardw »

rlander wrote: post #15

I'd argue that clojure-py is important for a different reason: Clojure is slowly sneaking up on every popular runtime: JVM -> Clojure Javascript -> ClojureScript Erlang VM -> Joxa CPython/PyPy -> Clojure-py In a few years clojurers/lispers will be able to target multiple platforms with one simple language. As a pythonista myself, I used to feel overcome with nausea just by looking at Clojure/Lisp code. However, Erlan…

What would that two books be? I'm reading the joy of clojure myself now. So far so good.

Re: Python becomes a platform. Thoughts on the release of clojure-py.

#18

Post by rlander »

edwardw wrote: post #17
rlander wrote: post #15

I'd argue that clojure-py is important for a different reason: Clojure is slowly sneaking up on every popular runtime: JVM -> Clojure Javascript -> ClojureScript Erlang VM -> Joxa CPython/PyPy -> Clojure-py In a few years clojurers/lispers will be able to target multiple platforms with one simple language. As a pythonista myself, I used to feel overcome with nausea just by looking at Clojure/Lisp code. However, Erlan…

What would that two books be? I'm reading the joy of clojure myself now. So far so good.

Yeah, I started with TJoC, but it felt like watching a movie before reading the book: it's fun, but you miss many of the insights that went into producing the movie.

So I backed up, practiced some (koans, 4clojure, Euler), read Stuart Sierra's Programming Clojure and then read TJoC. Both excellent books, btw.

Re: Python becomes a platform. Thoughts on the release of clojure-py.

#19

Post by lightcatcher »

rlander wrote: post #15

I'd argue that clojure-py is important for a different reason: Clojure is slowly sneaking up on every popular runtime: JVM -> Clojure Javascript -> ClojureScript Erlang VM -> Joxa CPython/PyPy -> Clojure-py In a few years clojurers/lispers will be able to target multiple platforms with one simple language. As a pythonista myself, I used to feel overcome with nausea just by looking at Clojure/Lisp code. However, Erlan…

Sadly, I believe all of these ports run slightly different dialects of Clojure (beyond the things that must be different, like interacting with code written in other languages).

Re: Python becomes a platform. Thoughts on the release of clojure-py.

#20

Post by swannodette »

lightcatcher wrote: post #19
rlander wrote: post #15

I'd argue that clojure-py is important for a different reason: Clojure is slowly sneaking up on every popular runtime: JVM -> Clojure Javascript -> ClojureScript Erlang VM -> Joxa CPython/PyPy -> Clojure-py In a few years clojurers/lispers will be able to target multiple platforms with one simple language. As a pythonista myself, I used to feel overcome with nausea just by looking at Clojure/Lisp code. However, Erlan…

Sadly, I believe all of these ports run slightly different dialects of Clojure (beyond the things that must be different, like interacting with code written in other languages).

ClojureCLR and ClojureScript are not Clojure dialects - they are Clojure implementations. I'm not sure what the creators of clojure-py intend and Joxa is not Clojure as far as I can tell.
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