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I feel like I made a mistake investing professionally into Flutter

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Re: I feel like I made a mistake investing professionally into Flutter

#111

Post by scarface_74 »

mhoad wrote: post #106
scarface_74 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you can invest your time I learning Fuschsia and Flutter. What could possibly go wrong? But that’s not demonstrating the promise of a great cross platform experience.

You made an argument saying that even Google won’t use it for cross platform. I have some context as to why it’s both a wrong and misleading statement. When it came to the biggest money maker of the entire business this is what they picked. When it came to a new greenfield project for an entire OS… this is what they picked for the UI. The statements you made about “the lessons they learned” is just some stuff you mad…

Ads is their biggest money maker. But it doesn’t have to be usable compared to their consumer facing software. Even though it’s used by ad buyers, it’s more akin to internal tools that at most large companies don’t get near the care of consumer facing tools (looking at you Amazon where the internal review process website broke last April).

Re: I feel like I made a mistake investing professionally into Flutter

#112

Post by lampshades »

listenallyall wrote: post #91
sanderjd wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, yeah, I would have no trouble hiring you for any of those things, based on your experiences. I wouldn't have expectations that you'd be the most productive member of those teams "in a few days", but a few months, sure. And I would expect your wisdom from working on a bunch of different things to be a lot more impactful than whatever fine grained details you don't yet know of the exact technology we're usi…

You're saying that in isolation. If you have 50 other resumes on your desk for a React job, there's no way you're going to choose the guy who hasn't touched front-end since 2012.

I've interviewed a lot of candidates over my years and technology specific information isn't something I ever look for, unless money is tight.

Re: I feel like I made a mistake investing professionally into Flutter

#113

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

scarface_74 wrote: post #32
tkiolp4 wrote: post #15

I don’t buy it. As software developers we learn technologies for breakfast. We learn them, and then we forget them. We recollect the wisdom gained and apply it in our next gig using a different technology. It works for mobile development, for frontend, for backend, for infra, for almost anything. I have worked for years with PHP, Apache, Ansible and MySQL. Nowadays not anymore. And in 7 years I’ll be using something…

Yes because I know Java (hypothetically I haven’t touched Java since two years after it was introduced) I can become an efficient Android developer “in a few days”. Better yet, since I did Windows CE development for ruggedized devices using C# Compact framework back between 2007-2010, I should have no problem picking up iOS development “in a few days” and start being a productive member of a team right? Or better yet…

Thanks very much for posting this, totally agree. I get frustrated when I hear all these missives about how easy it is for any good developer to learn a new language "in a couple days". I think this paragraph was key:

> Learning a language is easy. Modern development requires knowing the toolchain framework, idiosyncrasies, foot guns, best practices, etc.

That said, I still nearly always hire for general skills and not specific technologies, as long as there is at least one expert in the specific tech under consideration on the team (which there nearly always is). And I budget anywhere from 3-6 months for a person to become truly proficient at a new platform technology.

Re: I feel like I made a mistake investing professionally into Flutter

#114

Post by o_m »

tkiolp4 wrote: post #15

I don’t buy it. As software developers we learn technologies for breakfast. We learn them, and then we forget them. We recollect the wisdom gained and apply it in our next gig using a different technology. It works for mobile development, for frontend, for backend, for infra, for almost anything. I have worked for years with PHP, Apache, Ansible and MySQL. Nowadays not anymore. And in 7 years I’ll be using something…

Everyone goes through this once. A lot of your knowledge suddenly aren't needed anymore because of external factors. For me it was Flash. I've seen colleges being afraid of learning new technology after being burned once. Now my skills are learning new skills.

Re: I feel like I made a mistake investing professionally into Flutter

#115

Post by scarface_74 »

sanderjd wrote: post #84
scarface_74 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So could you be a productive iOS/Android developer in a week with no previous experience?

I think all the "a few days" and "a week" stuff that generates these kinds of debate is a total red herring. Yes, it's hyperbole. But it's also true that people with experience successfully applying a bunch of different technologies are great hires onto a team using a technology they don't yet know. It's just a process measured in months rather than days. But if you need to hire someone because you have something tha…

And then it gets back to my other argument. Are you going to pay someone the same that doesn’t fit your technical needs as you would someone who does? If you pay them less, are your raise policies going to allow you to get them to market value once they do have the skillset or are they going to end up job hopping?

Re: I feel like I made a mistake investing professionally into Flutter

#116

Post by jgoodhcg »

lampshades wrote: post #112
listenallyall wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're saying that in isolation. If you have 50 other resumes on your desk for a React job, there's no way you're going to choose the guy who hasn't touched front-end since 2012.

I've interviewed a lot of candidates over my years and technology specific information isn't something I ever look for, unless money is tight.

> unless money is tight

The software dev job market is cooling down. Making good choices on what to build experience in is more important than it has been in recent years.

I think many companies, including mine, are thinking they have only a few spots to fill and a lot of candidates to consider. I know we consistently say things like “who will be productive quickly?”

Re: I feel like I made a mistake investing professionally into Flutter

#117

Post by amelius »

So what would be the best mobile development setup for someone who:

- prefers to work in a Unix-like environment (e.g. Linux);

- prefers to code in Vim;

- prefers to have a single unified codebase for different mobile platforms;

- prefers to test applications on a Linux machine running an X server.

Re: I feel like I made a mistake investing professionally into Flutter

#118

Post by littlecranky67 »

dwattttt wrote: post #29
tkiolp4 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Hiring managers and recruiter match buzzwords in your CV So? You put those buzzwords in your CV. What’s difficult about that? You feel like being dishonest? If so, again, just explain in the next stage of the interview (with real engineers) that you do have real world experience in similar but not exactly the same technologies listed in your CV. You just did so to pass through HR. Not a big deal (as long as you’re…

I would assume the problem comes up the next time his CV gets rejected for not having "Continuous Integration" on it.

I have made some "SEO" optimizations as some agencies use text-based CV matching. Some are upfront with it, with others I observe it because I get a lot of Java project requests (I never coded Java, but as a FE dev, have lots of JavaScript in my CV text).

I'm gladly looking forward 3-5 years, when AI will handle this CV analysis and match a project description from a company to a proper candidate. Basic GPT can tell right now if CI/CD matches "Azure Pipelines". Then we can fire the lower 50-80% of unskilled recruiters that do not provide any value to the market right now.

Re: I feel like I made a mistake investing professionally into Flutter

#119

Post by itpragmatik »

ThinkBeat wrote: post #22

Id say that its the wrong way to think about it. As long as you are working in the software engineering field change is a near certainty. You will not hit on a technology / framework / product that will keep you going for 40 years. [1] Working with Flutter you have learned a lot that is valuable going forward. Learning to adopt new tools is part of the job.

I started doing Java (and sql/Oracle) development in late 1990s and even today I am deploying REST APIs written in Java, MySQL to AWS. So, yeah, it has been about 23+ years so far!

Re: I feel like I made a mistake investing professionally into Flutter

#120

Post by scarface_74 »

ianlevesque wrote: post #73
mgkimsal wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While that might be the 'right' answer, it's also in the minority for many job openings/postings.

You're not wrong, but thankfully job openings are more fungible than ever too, with remote positions open at plenty of companies that won't make that particular (not-)hiring mistake.

Remote positions make it easier not harder to find someone with the skills fit that a company needs and makes any position more competitive.

When companies were looking for “a C# developer who knew the latest front end framework who was willing to commute to the office in midtown Atlanta” the pool was a lot smaller than “someone legally allowed to work in the US”

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