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I feel like I made a mistake investing professionally into Flutter

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Re: I feel like I made a mistake investing professionally into Flutter

#101

Post by scarface_74 »

mhoad wrote: post #95
lockhouse wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that actually true though? Most major Google apps predate Flutter. I was under the impression that a lot of their apps are either custom web view wrappers or native with shared C++ code for business logic. Stadia and Google Pay are the only consumer facing Google apps I’m aware of that are made with Flutter.

Ads is all flutter on mobile and Dart on the web. Fuchsia is an OS that is also using Flutter for their entire UI layer. I think there’s more a case of there isn’t an argument for doing but rewrites just because Flutter is now a thing but in a greenfield scenario it would be a serious contender

So you can invest your time I learning Fuschsia and Flutter. What could possibly go wrong?

But that’s not demonstrating the promise of a great cross platform experience.

Re: I feel like I made a mistake investing professionally into Flutter

#102

Post by ransom1538 »

bibabaloo wrote: post #8

Are mobile stacks so specialised that it's difficult to switch between them? Out of curiosity, how long would it take a flutter dev to become productive in some other stack?

Android to iOS is like React to Cobol. If you were a plumber using android you might know more about Android than a iOS developer.

Re: I feel like I made a mistake investing professionally into Flutter

#103

Post by BlargMcLarg »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #80
tkiolp4 wrote: post #15

I don’t buy it. As software developers we learn technologies for breakfast. We learn them, and then we forget them. We recollect the wisdom gained and apply it in our next gig using a different technology. It works for mobile development, for frontend, for backend, for infra, for almost anything. I have worked for years with PHP, Apache, Ansible and MySQL. Nowadays not anymore. And in 7 years I’ll be using something…

It's one thing knowing the language, it's another being productive with the ecosystem. One takes between a few days and a few months. The other is a few years, unless you get pro training. I guarantee most people starting with Python from another language will be productive quickly. But they will curse the packaging ecosystem because they will follow a lot of tutorials that don't follow this: https://bitecode.substac…

You're seriously arguing that someone with general knowledge of programming is going to get hard-stuck not knowing specifics of a language you and thousands of others have blogposted about for years, while linking your own posts?

Let's be real here. What percentage of companies are in dire need of 'experienced [language] programmers' who know these specifics that haven't already been set by previous devs or have another developer present to make the decisions? That's a tiny, tiny percentage of the entire job market, with much of the demand coming from companies with incredibly shaky foundations.

Almost the entirety of this is a luxury problem put on the individual. The moment the job market says they can't demand it anymore, they won't.

Re: I feel like I made a mistake investing professionally into Flutter

#104

Post by nicpottier »

mhoad wrote: post #95
lockhouse wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that actually true though? Most major Google apps predate Flutter. I was under the impression that a lot of their apps are either custom web view wrappers or native with shared C++ code for business logic. Stadia and Google Pay are the only consumer facing Google apps I’m aware of that are made with Flutter.

Ads is all flutter on mobile and Dart on the web. Fuchsia is an OS that is also using Flutter for their entire UI layer. I think there’s more a case of there isn’t an argument for doing but rewrites just because Flutter is now a thing but in a greenfield scenario it would be a serious contender

I used to feel the same way but Flutter is hardly a new technology anymore yet still seems to be used very little. I've dabbled with it on hobby projects here and there and it seems "fine" but not sure I'd bet the farm on it.

Re: I feel like I made a mistake investing professionally into Flutter

#105

Post by scarface_74 »

doix wrote: post #81
scarface_74 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It also depends on what you mean by "productive", would I want to lead a team to create a new app from scratch? Probably not. Go into an existing app and start fixing bugs and creating new features? Sure. As someone with experience, are you actually applying for jobs where you would just be pulling stories off the board doing “feature work”? And let’s take your example. What’s the chance of me being productively ab…

> As someone with experience, are you actually applying for jobs where you would just be pulling stories off the board doing “feature work”? I dislike the whole Agile stories/points/sprints thing, so probably not those jobs. But if you're asking if I'm applying to jobs where I write code, then yep! I love writing code and building things. > And let’s take your example. What’s the chance of me being productively able…

> I don't know what other experience you have, but probably. At my previous job, I got a bunch of silicon production test engineers, that spend most of their day writing VBA, "productive" in React within a week.

It depends on your definition of “production”. I got a couple of developers who had spent a decade+ supporting a PowerBuilder app and writing stored procedures.

Their C# code was a horrible mess.

My former CTO (55 years old and his idea of research was coding POCs - smart guy), said he wouldn’t hire “old people” any more to do front end work because their front end designs weren’t as good as people who started out doing front end work and have been doing it for years.

All of his back end developers/architects were older.

Re: I feel like I made a mistake investing professionally into Flutter

#106

Post by mhoad »

scarface_74 wrote: post #101
mhoad wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ads is all flutter on mobile and Dart on the web. Fuchsia is an OS that is also using Flutter for their entire UI layer. I think there’s more a case of there isn’t an argument for doing but rewrites just because Flutter is now a thing but in a greenfield scenario it would be a serious contender

So you can invest your time I learning Fuschsia and Flutter. What could possibly go wrong? But that’s not demonstrating the promise of a great cross platform experience.

You made an argument saying that even Google won’t use it for cross platform.

I have some context as to why it’s both a wrong and misleading statement.

When it came to the biggest money maker of the entire business this is what they picked. When it came to a new greenfield project for an entire OS… this is what they picked for the UI.

The statements you made about “the lessons they learned” is just some stuff you made up and isn’t actually supported by facts.

Re: I feel like I made a mistake investing professionally into Flutter

#107

Post by chaostheory »

tkiolp4 wrote: post #15

I don’t buy it. As software developers we learn technologies for breakfast. We learn them, and then we forget them. We recollect the wisdom gained and apply it in our next gig using a different technology. It works for mobile development, for frontend, for backend, for infra, for almost anything. I have worked for years with PHP, Apache, Ansible and MySQL. Nowadays not anymore. And in 7 years I’ll be using something…

The probability of success is largely is based on the available supply of developers vs the demand for them. Canada’s market is ok, but not great which is probably why so many Canadian programmers immigrated south.

Re: I feel like I made a mistake investing professionally into Flutter

#108

Post by mdhb »

nicpottier wrote: post #104
mhoad wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ads is all flutter on mobile and Dart on the web. Fuchsia is an OS that is also using Flutter for their entire UI layer. I think there’s more a case of there isn’t an argument for doing but rewrites just because Flutter is now a thing but in a greenfield scenario it would be a serious contender

I used to feel the same way but Flutter is hardly a new technology anymore yet still seems to be used very little. I've dabbled with it on hobby projects here and there and it seems "fine" but not sure I'd bet the farm on it.

It’s been a thing outside the context of iOS and android for maybe less than 2 years? It’s hardly in the “it had its chance but failed” category.

Re: I feel like I made a mistake investing professionally into Flutter

#109

Post by scarface_74 »

listenallyall wrote: post #91
sanderjd wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, yeah, I would have no trouble hiring you for any of those things, based on your experiences. I wouldn't have expectations that you'd be the most productive member of those teams "in a few days", but a few months, sure. And I would expect your wisdom from working on a bunch of different things to be a lot more impactful than whatever fine grained details you don't yet know of the exact technology we're usi…

You're saying that in isolation. If you have 50 other resumes on your desk for a React job, there's no way you're going to choose the guy who hasn't touched front-end since 2012.

I agree completely. Even if I did learn React. I still wouldn’t know the tricks to make a modern, usable, website. I would be no good as lead responsible for giving input on best practices and strategy.

Re: I feel like I made a mistake investing professionally into Flutter

#110

Post by chairhairair »

nailer wrote: post #82
quickthrower2 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go lost to Rust. Citation?

Is one needed? Rust is in the Linux kernel, in the Windows kernel, and is used by the most active blockchain.

Those are some true measures of success right there.
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