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How a startup loses its spark

blog.johnqian.com

41–50 of 287 posts

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#41
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only people could think from outside themselves for two seconds to assess technological impacts like you just have.

Awareness barely helps, it's the tragedy of the commons. I can't think of a solution other than regulation. But then if some countries regulate and others don't, you're right back at the tragedy of the commons at the international level. Reminds me of the Mass Effect games, where AI is essentially outlawed (because they revolted against the humans of course, but I can picture less scifi-ish reasons in the real world)…

Let's keep sci-fi worlds designed to make a good story out of serious discussion, please.

Or let me raise a The Culture argument, where computers/AI is hyper-advanced, AIs are friends, and no regulation whatsoever is needed.

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#42

As soon as you start dealing with large customers, these things become inevitable. People can’t start doing whatever they like because it becomes riskier to do it. What might be good for that one customer may not be good for the big customers you actually need to keep to make a profitable business. Big customers always want to know about the roadmap.

That depends on what kind of large customers you're doing business with.

If a customer is large enough, and their pockets deep enough, you can absolutely justify building what is good only for that customer, and shipping it only to that customer. Keep that branch separate from the general-purpose product you're selling to the pleebs.

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#43
post #6

The book Loonshots by Safi Bahcall describes this phenomena quite well. There's a "phase transition" of incentives at around 150 people that can be fatal to many organizations. The secret sauce is how a startup goes past this headcount. Ideally many software companies quite honestly don't need more than 150 people!

When they say "100" or "150", do they usually mean total company size or number of engineering+product people?

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#44
post #9

It almost feels like the "efficiencies of scale" you get from large organisations (e.g. specialised people for recruitment, people matters, quality assurance, user research etc.) are not really efficiencies. Perhaps it's better to grow the organisation by repeatedly cloning the smallest effective team you ever had, rather than creating a more "efficient" organisational structure. How those "mini-companies" communicat…

The challenge is cloning teams is impossible. Teams are a collection of individuals. It’s like saying the way to win the World Cup is to simply clone the best team. I think the best way to scale is to build processes that reinforce the traits you want in a team, and hire managers who understand teams are collections of unique individuals, as is the manager. The manager should be free to manage their people in a way t…

> the way to win the World Cup is to simply clone the best team

The startup that does that should absolutely be called "Boys from Brazil".

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#45

> Is this preventable? I think not. If you look closely, all these problems fundamentally come from… It is preventable. I built an ISP in mid-90s, a digital agency in late 90s, another digital agency and a streaming CDN (world's first VDN) in 00s, as well as worked as chief architect for cloud at world's largest hedge fund and CTO of world's second largest bank. I'm currently an entrepreneur again, co-founding and bu…

What pile of practices are you trying to avoid? When I see time boxed work with an outcome, that’s the very definition of a project to me. There’s nothing else. I had a weekend project building a desk. It’s timeboxed to the weekend. There’s an outcome. What am I missing?

On the contrary, "time box" means the time is fixed, the work achieved is variable.

Projects: the project comes in "on time and under budget" or is "late", but the work is fixed.

Time boxes: The difference is if you are targeting an RoE curve, you can decide when to continue investing in that or pivot to something else. You pick a date to re-evaluate. This is how VC work with startups.

You also make sure have minimum viable outcome well before that re-eval date, and then viable increments. It's effectively just CI/CD for outcomes!

I should mention that by running a video streaming VDN, in the 00s we carried the world's largest streaming events white labeled for other CDNs. TV deadlines are real: the Oscars, or the State of the Union address, are happening when they happen. So you can have to deliver outcomes in a time frame. The way to always always hit that, never miss it, is let the work within that outcome, the "definition of done" be the variable. Somewhere inside the effort is a minimum viable outcome. Ship that, then iterate until your date or additional effort is below your RoE bar.

Managers love to invent deadlines to "motivate" a team, and everyone pretends they don't know the deadlines are nonsense. Actual deadlines -- if you're not working, you're dead -- teach you a different way to work.

A project tries to fix both work and date, which doesn't work and is rarely on time.

A time box fixes the date, not the work. Iterative delivery always hits the date and generally works.

---

Using your weekend desk example:

You could want a wood inlay desk.

For the "job to be done", the desk has to support you doing work.

In this toy example, the wood inlay is a desired constraint, not a required constraint. Business analyst will still call "wood inlay" a requirement, even though that "requirement" might lot let you ship a viable desk within the weekend.

If you do the work project style, you might work the wood inlay for each panel before assembling them into a desk.

The problem is, until you assemble it, the desk isn't a desk, it can't do the job to be done. If inlay takes longer than you thought, because it's your first time doing it and you had to research and built a couple test panels to throw away, then when the weekend is over, you have no desk.

If you do it time-box style, and if "usable desk" is the required constraint, you might assemble the desk first, then do the inlay. Or you might design the desk where panels can be removed and inlaid whenever. Either way, if you ran out of weekend, you can already use the desk, just not fully inlaid.

Certainly, doing the inlay after assembly will require more effort.

So then ask yourself, was the deadline real, or was the inlay requirement real?

If you know in advance that desk with inlay is the absolute requirement, you're willing to take two weekends instead of one, so then the deadline wasn't real.

---

What's funny about this is, within a firm, everyone would jump on me and say the desk and the inlay are requirements.

But if you don't know how to build desks, and need a vendor to provide it, you suddenly become tolerant of the differences in soft and hard requirements.

Say you have to work from home, and you want a desk with inlay, but can't get one in time. You will iterate instead!

You'll work at a table (the minimum viable desk) immediately and for a while, then maybe iterate to an Ikea desk while the custom one is ordered and hand crafted, then iterate to your custom desk with inlay when it arrives, with the added flexibility of arranging shipping to deliver when it's most convenient.

If we handled work among groups internally the same way we understand we have to handle work among groups when we can't control them, companies would have a lot less jank.

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#46

> Is this preventable? I think not. If you look closely, all these problems fundamentally come from… It is preventable. I built an ISP in mid-90s, a digital agency in late 90s, another digital agency and a streaming CDN (world's first VDN) in 00s, as well as worked as chief architect for cloud at world's largest hedge fund and CTO of world's second largest bank. I'm currently an entrepreneur again, co-founding and bu…

> Instead of controlling for budgets and delivery dates, control for focus and outcome value. Then you can manage the money as investments in teams delivering outcomes, instead of budgets for projects.

Maybe if you sell to end users. If you have clients with SLAs, requirements etc and legal penalties for missing them, not working to delivery dates isn't going to work. Even in teams with projects, ensuring deadlines are met is still tricky.

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#47

> Is this preventable? I think not. If you look closely, all these problems fundamentally come from… It is preventable. I built an ISP in mid-90s, a digital agency in late 90s, another digital agency and a streaming CDN (world's first VDN) in 00s, as well as worked as chief architect for cloud at world's largest hedge fund and CTO of world's second largest bank. I'm currently an entrepreneur again, co-founding and bu…

Wow - I’ve been thinking very closely to what you describe here, but never completely pieced it together until I read “No projects”. You’re completely right. I find that often process is used as an excuse to ignore outcome ownership - even if things didn’t work out, well at least we can say we did things by the book. No one is at fault, and no one needs to learn from it.

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#49
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Awareness barely helps, it's the tragedy of the commons. I can't think of a solution other than regulation. But then if some countries regulate and others don't, you're right back at the tragedy of the commons at the international level. Reminds me of the Mass Effect games, where AI is essentially outlawed (because they revolted against the humans of course, but I can picture less scifi-ish reasons in the real world)…

Let's keep sci-fi worlds designed to make a good story out of serious discussion, please. Or let me raise a The Culture argument, where computers/AI is hyper-advanced, AIs are friends, and no regulation whatsoever is needed.

Fair, not the best example of regulation countering the tragedy of the commons, because it's just made up. Unfortunately, any real world examples I can think of (nature preservation, gun control, ...) are seemingly controversial.

Re: How a startup loses its spark

#50

I disagree - as someone who has started up small companies and worked in megacorps, including FAANG and major banks, it’s entirely possible to build that intoxicating environment anywhere. It’s more about having a dynamic leader who assembles teams into collections of individuals who know precisely why they are there - and are given the work they excel at and the work they don’t the manager ensures someone who does h…

> The arguments articulated are entirely false I’d would disagree - I had the exact experience that the autor described. But you are right on this point > it’s entirely possible to build that intoxicating environment anywhere. It’s more about having a dynamic leader who assembles teams into collections of individuals who know precisely why they are there I still think it’s related to size and bad incentives. I heard…

Yes, thats correct. However the existence of X department at all refutes the authors premise and conclusion - and if X exists, it’s entirely possibly for Y to become better.

Specifically this is entirely false due to the existence of X:

> Is this preventable? I think not.

I> f you look closely, all these problems fundamentally come from:

> Decreased skin in the game, which reduces team alignment

> N^2 communication, which creates need for managers and specialization, which reduces individual agency and breadth of learning

> Reduced risk tolerance, which slows everything down

> #1 and #2 are inevitable results of having more employees. #3 is an inevitable result of having more users, partially due to government regulation.

I think a large company enables Y departments to exist without the company imploding immediately. Survivorship bias ensures most startups that last longer than a short amount of time to appear like X, when I know there are plenty of dysfunctional startups (a friend tells me Ghost is a great example). But due to the economics of a startup they evaporate quickly. In a large company Y departments can limp along for a long time or indefinitely because Y’s function needs to exist and the company can afford for it to suck ass to work there without it going out of business. However invariably X departments in large corporations are where the magic happens, where people want to work, and what moves the large enterprise forward.

I’d also note that not everyone wants to work in a startup environment or are able to. Many engineers got into it for a good paycheck and don’t have much interest in anything particularly dynamic or engaging. They’re perfectly happy committing once a month and sitting in meetings. That’s not me, but I can also see when you build an army, you can’t build it out of special forces only.

So, instead of saying X can’t exist, when it clearly does, I think it’s more useful to say you should be careful where you work in a large company and seek out actively the X departments by learning what Y departments look like and how to spot an X department.

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