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80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

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Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#281

Post by johnnyanmac »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #119
tester756 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you found simple solution for very complicated dynamic and you actually believe you solved this problem? I don't care about offices with doors. Sure, they're better, but still it doesn't solve my issues - I care about commute - time and money, especially time. I've been commuting like 3h / day before WFH and I don't want to go back unless you pay me at least 2.5x

I think this is a great comment. > I care about commute - time and money, especially time. I'm assuming you have done the whole draw a circle around where you live that represents your maximum willingness to commute and then apply for jobs in that circle thing? It was very popular in silicon valley during the dot com boom. When the commute circle comes up empty though, what do you do? Not snark, 100% serious. Hired a…

>Her solution was she would live in the Bay area for 6 months, renting an apartment, save her money and then fly back to Hawaii and live there for 6 months on the money she had saved.

so her solution was a gamble? get a job and hope they care enough to compromise in 6 months when she tries to move back? It's an interesting strategy, but not an ironclad one without a lot of street smarts. stuff that's hard to research when you're not a local.

>he employer has factors they can change and factors they cannot when creating an attractive place to work for people who can (in theory) choose to work anywhere. Some of those employers will say "work at the office or quit, your choice." with the expectation that some will quit but presumably most will stay (change is really hard after all and it's scary to jump into the abyss).

but it sounds like the executive of interest more or less lost this gamble as well. they hoped most people would stay, and they either didn't or it fell below expectations, perhaps lofty ones. I feel it's a two way road here: employers won't sympathize with an employee who wants to WFH when the company doesn't, why shouold it work the other way around?

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#282

Post by stevezsa8 »

lamontcg wrote: post #94
troupe wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it funny that when people were required to be home, employers talked about what great productivity they were getting with people at home. Then when it isn't required anymore, they want everyone back in the office for...productivity. My guess is that most employers really have no way to measure if an employee is being productive or not so managers are just reporting what makes them look good...and now we are ba…

> I find it funny that when people were required to be home, employers talked about what great productivity they were getting with people at home. Then when it isn't required anymore, they want everyone back in the office for...productivity. The decades of evidence that open office plans are utter shit for productivity already proved that the emperor wears no clothes and they have no idea what makes for better produc…

When we returned to the office, my boss decided even a single day WFH was frowned upon. Having to beg to stay home for a dentist appointment became a big ordeal. But my boss was a bit unhinged before covid.

I found it funny that my lockdown productivity suddenly counted for nothing.

I have friends at other companies who have been 3 days per week WFH for 2 years and really appreciate the flexibility.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#283

Post by stevezsa8 »

0xblinq wrote: post #171
deaddodo wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Open offices are the literal reason (after commuting/traffic) that I no longer want to go into the office. My work doesn't require a ton of person:person engagement and it's much easier for me to just zone out in my own headspace to do it. When I was required in the office, I would just wear headphones to avoid distractions, but I would have to deal with 2-3hrs of driving/day on top of it. This meant that my employer…

The headphones thing reminds me of a big events ticketing company I worked for that, when people complained about noise, distractions, etc they came up with the amazing solution of using your health and wellness budget to buy noise cancelling headphones. Most full of bullshit company I’ve ever worked for.

Reminds me of one job, my boss was looking to leave, and was handing over portions of her job to the rest of us. I said I don't have time to do more additional work... she said they can send me on a course to better manage my time. haha.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#284

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway72957 wrote: post #98
atleastoptimal wrote: post #15

I understand the merits of WFH and in-person work. One thing that is however funny is the guilt tripping used by employers who have this straw-man version of a lazy WFH employee, and more so, employers who have a delusion that their workplace is important enough that people need to sacrifice a large portion of their lives just for the opportunity to be there in person. 90% of jobs aren't people's "passions" and have…

We have a generous hybrid work policy: you can WFH, but you may be required to attend on-site sessions and meetings, for example if we're doing architecture brainstorms or design reviews. We've not found this to work well over zoom. Overall, this works out to a day or two a month, but most people choose to come in at least 1 day a week for various reasons (mostly social). We casually observed there seemed to be a spl…

[deleted]

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#285

Post by johnnyanmac »

paulcole wrote: post #89
ChuckMcM wrote: post #39

I had lunch, not too long ago, with a senior executive of a silicon valley tech company that was moaning about how much of a pain it was to get people to come into the office and how it felt like things would never return to the way they were. And I told them I actually knew of a way to get 100% of their employees to return to the office happily. When they asked what this magic bullet was I said, "Go back to offices,…

> And I told them I actually knew of a way to get 100% of their employees to return to the office happily I guarantee this isn’t true. The remote work lifers would find a reason to think that private on-site offices was bad, too.

It's a curve. Your goal isn't to convince people who are deadset on never stepping foot in an office again. The cost to try and change that mind is so extreme that you're only reserving that value to executive or fellows anyway. Who already have that flexibility.

But if they really do care about RTO and they want to incentivize people with a modest commute to come back... make the office better.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#286

Post by xedrac »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #270
Alupis wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of nuance that isn't discussed in the WFH circles. I don't believe the cynical claims some offer of VC's losing out on real estate deals, or mid-level managers needing to boost their butts-in-seats numbers or whatever. For some, perhaps, but on average? What percentage of long-distance relationships work out long-term? Do you become more or less close with friends after they move out of town? Do you sti…

>What percentage of long-distance relationships work out long-term? Do you become more or less close with friends after they move out of town? Do you still "know" them the same as you did when you regularly met in person for lunch or drinks? Is it awkward when you do see each other in person that one visit a year? that's the crux of a lot of people here. You are comparing coworkers to friend and some people don't car…

It's more like a 52 hour work week for me. I think it depends on your personality. I have a hard time stopping my work, but I still think the benefits outweigh that.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#287

Post by andelink »

re-thc wrote: post #254
kadoban wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That doesn't work for everyone. Some offices are louder than headphones Depending on your budget, you can block out anything short of jackhammers with either IEMs or earbuds+noise reduction earmuffs. > and some people come around tapping your shoulders regardless Do they expect to continue living? What monsters.

> Depending on your budget, you can block out anything short of jackhammers with either IEMs or earbuds+noise reduction earmuffs. Perhaps more a personal thing but it induces a dizziness/ drowsiness with extended use. It’s fine when watching say a movie but I could never work for long periods with my ears blocked. Wonder if I’m the only 1 but I have heard of similar cases.

I wear them all day during work and also then a couple hours in the evening without any issue. Pure bliss

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#288

Post by lawn »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #39

I had lunch, not too long ago, with a senior executive of a silicon valley tech company that was moaning about how much of a pain it was to get people to come into the office and how it felt like things would never return to the way they were. And I told them I actually knew of a way to get 100% of their employees to return to the office happily. When they asked what this magic bullet was I said, "Go back to offices,…

> Go back to offices, with doors.

And invent a teleporter. The commute is absolute terrible.

It's actually a bit more complicated than you think it is.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#289

Post by johnnyanmac »

xracy wrote: post #144

I can't figure this out, but there seems to be some monied interests in people returning to work because of corporate real estate... That part makes sense to me, the part I don't understand is why every other corporation seems to want to continue buying into that when they could, for example, stop and save money on their current corporate real estate...

Perhaps it's like stocks? "It'll bounce back", and land is traditionally one of the safest investments to make.

It's a weird whiplash to hear about empty office buildings on the enterprise side, while also hearing that the real estate market for private citizens is absolutely exploding. I've had some real estate agent come to my door every month this year asking about trying to sell my house.

Maybe enterprise wants to be ahead of some future office gold rush (that may or may not happen)

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#290

Post by [deleted] »

mattw2121 wrote: post #121
Natsu wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it funny that when people were required to be home, employers talked about what great productivity they were getting with people at home. In our case, we do have good, long-standing metrics: we measure how happy our customers say they are with our service. Since the whole point is to have happy, repeat customers and they have no reason to lie about being happy, we can trust this. That went up significantly a…

One point to remember is that during the pandemic, customers were much more sympathetic to everyone. The overall quality of customer service has gone done since the pandemic (even in companies that returned to office) and we, the customer, are forgiving of that. Pre-pandemic, we were not nearly as forgiving.

[deleted]
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