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Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

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Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#91

Post by bastawhiz »

somerandomqaguy wrote: post #54
jeffbee wrote: post #33

Yeah but there’s nothing to break or fix on a Zero! I needed all those Honda service manuals over the years because honing cylinder walls and fitting rings and grinding valves and bedding in crank bearings are things you sometimes have to do. What’s complicated about an electric motorcycle?

>Yeah but there’s nothing to break or fix on a Zero! ...........? Wheel bearings, axle grease, wheel alignment, fork seals, suspension bearings, head bearings, chain/belt, sprockets, brake system (pads, piston, caliper, seals, master cylinder, fluid, rotors), tires, cooling system. Plus the classics of levers, hoses, bent handles bars or forks, stripping bolts, broken kick stands, etc. None of that goes away with an…

Not to be pedantic or invalidate your point, but most (all?) Zero bikes are air cooled, and they have zero hoses. Brakes get like an order of magnitude less wear thanks to regen, and the only fluid is brakes (well, and the battery, but if you find yourself in contact with it, the bike is a loss).

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#92

Post by deet »

porknubbins wrote: post #17

Are there any OEMs whose service manuals are hard to find? I restore cars and motorcycles and have never had trouble finding a pdf or hard copy for around $20. Its good that they are doing this though a lot of the secrets I’d want to know about an electric motorcycle are about the ECU when that software is some of the most tightly guarded of any.

I pay like $8/month for access to my 2021 Triumph’s service manual.

As far as I know they keep it as an interactive website so that PDFs are hard to make.

I haven’t found a good copy yet but it’s also possible that I’m just not as good at searching for pirated content as back in the old torrenting days (or perhaps just less motivated)

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#93

Post by bastawhiz »

JumpinJack_Cash wrote: post #12
cdot2 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is energica really the leader in electric motorcycle sales? I couldnt find any stats but Ive definitely seen some zero bikes on the road and Ive never seen an energica in person

They are going nowhere. Electric motorcycles are a terrible idea because they are not the problem as far as emission go. Given the ratio between the weight of the motorcycle and the weight of the passenger/s they are extemely efficient, having the whole passenger vehicles switch to motorcycles would be even better than have them switch to 3000 pounds EVs. The vast majority of people are too coward to drive them unfor…

> Electric motorcycles are a terrible idea because they are not the problem as far as emission go.

I own two and emissions have never been a consideration for my purchase. Nobody is buying electric bikes to save the environment.

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#95

Post by tiew9Vii »

JumpinJack_Cash wrote: post #28
eightnoneone wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terrible idea?!? Have you ever ridden a motorcycle? Or an electric one? I've been riding for ~40 years and I don't think I've _ever_ met someone who rode an ICE bike for the fuel/emissions efficiency. It's for the fun and adventure. My stock Energica does 0-60 in 2.8s. WAAAY more fun than my 30yo 1100cc. Pretty GOOD idea from where I'm sitting.

> > My stock Energica does 0-60 in 2.8s. Should I be impressed? That's the same of a 1999 Yamaha R6 selling for less than 1000$ [0] And the R6 can do it all day, you'll run out of tires before you run out of clutch and gas. The Energica does it once and then it's panting and overheating. And as always the point in motorsport is that every noob squid and every idiot is capable of going fast in a straight line, the lig…

The R6 is an inline 4, 15500rpm red line, 68nm of torque. Fun bike, on a track or doing illegal speeds on the road. Rest of the time, it has no power.

The Enigica has 215nm of torque, about twice the 2022 R1.

The R6, the power is all up top, it’s gutless down low, you have to be up near the top in the rev range for it to go, engine screaming away. You’d also need to be pretty skilled at launching to get that 2.8s acceleration from it.

The Enigica you get all the torque from the get go, so much they have to limit it at the start. You just twist and it pulls from the off, no flat spots, it just keeps on pulling. It’s the torque that gives you the buzz, trying to hang on.

They are very different power deliveries and the Enigica makes a far better road bike (power wise) with all the torque rather than a high reving 600 il4 that you need to be near red line to get the most out of it. Even a 1000cc il4 with more torque, they don’t really get going until above 6,000rpm then your license is gone as you click in to second gear when making the most of the power band.

The Yamaha MT-09’s/10’a are so popular as they have high torque down low where it’s most practical for everyday riding.

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#96

Post by whartung »

SoftTalker wrote: post #71
koolba wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the rationale for not releasing a manual? To force you to take into a dealer for service? It’s not like they have to make a separate manual. It has to exist for the dealer anyway right?

For modern vehicles, the dealers really don't use manuals anymore. They connect their proprietary diagnostic computer, it runs all the tests and figures out what is wrong, and tells the mechanic what to replace or adjust. You can sometimes find bootlegs of these computers (generally a "tough" Windows laptop with software and connecting cables). They usually don't have the latest and greatest version of the software,…

The computer diagnostics don’t tell the technician how to do the replacement. The service manual has all of the procedures, parts lists, and special tools necessary for the job.

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#97

Post by RankingMember »

goku12 wrote: post #94
winddude wrote: post #89

This should be the norm.

It was the norm. I wonder if the HN population is young enough to have not seen them.

Service manuals being free was the norm? I had to pay for the one for my Japanese motorcycle from 1982 and on every other vehicle I've owned, unless you mean bootlegging on car forums. I don't know anyone who's gotten free service manuals direct from the manufacturer.

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#98

Post by zer8k »

porknubbins wrote: post #17

Are there any OEMs whose service manuals are hard to find? I restore cars and motorcycles and have never had trouble finding a pdf or hard copy for around $20. Its good that they are doing this though a lot of the secrets I’d want to know about an electric motorcycle are about the ECU when that software is some of the most tightly guarded of any.

Oh yeah.

Triumph in particular is notorious for this. For most bikes made beyond 2018 or so there are nearly no 3rd party manuals available. You have to pay, quite literally by the page or by the hour, to view the manuals on their website.

For older bikes its often easier. Clymer's has a substantial library that are often better than even the dealer mechanic book. I'm the mechanic among my group of friends and newer bikes are exceedingly difficult to not only work on, but also find proper manuals for.

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#99

Post by turdprincess »

Good move, but another thing this brand does is charge you a monthly subscription to unlock the full battery range on your bike. If you don’t pay, you lug around a dead weight extra battery you cannot access. Overall this brand is notoriously unfriendly to consumers.

Re: Zero Motorcycles makes its service manuals free

#100

Post by zer8k »

koolba wrote: post #63
whartung wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BMW no longer sells service manuals for their bikes. There are, essentially, bootlegs on line, but my understanding is that while before they had a dedicated Window application for their manuals, they're moving to an online only system, and only for dealers. So, while there are manuals floating around now, who knows how that will go moving forward. Obviously, this will be a key sticking point in the future with the "…

What’s the rationale for not releasing a manual? To force you to take into a dealer for service? It’s not like they have to make a separate manual. It has to exist for the dealer anyway right?

The $200/hr service charge most european motorcycle dealers charge. There are two things I can't do myself. Particularly, bleeding the ABS (which requires the dealer tool) and re-shimming the engine (which also requires a dealer tool).

My local stealership wants exactly $200/hr for every service. An oil change for my motorcycle is $300, a brake job is $650. Mind you parts for these jobs are in the mid-to-low XX's. It's ALL service fees. Reshimming the engine (once every 15k miles or so) costs a minimum of $1200 going up to $2000 if the engine needs significant adjustment. I've shimmed sportbikes for years and 6-8 hours worth of work is insane. I can do it in a few hours excluding the time to go get beer.

It's borderline theft. "Stealership" is not tongue in cheek. I am seriously considering trading in my motorcycle for cash (even at a loss) and re-buying an old R100GS.

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