80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans • Hacker News Board

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#221

Post by also23throwaway » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 3:24 AM UTC

mkl95 wrote: post #58

troupe wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it funny that when people were required to be home, employers talked about what great productivity they were getting with people at home. Then when it isn't required anymore, they want everyone back in the office for...productivity. My guess is that most employers really have no way to measure if an employee is being productive or not so managers are just reporting what makes them look good...and now we are ba…

> My guess is that most employers really have no way to measure if an employee is being productive or not so managers are just reporting what makes them look good...and now we are back to where managers will look better with lots of people running around the office. My guess is that CEOs and VCs have some obscure reason to force people back into the office. Perhaps related to real estate, especially considering how h…

In my company’s case, RTO is because of tax cut deals with the city/state. They need butts in seats to maximize profit after taxes, so they are passing the cost onto their employees.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#222

Post by Tempest1981 » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 3:29 AM UTC

eulgro wrote: post #207

throw__away7391 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I start work around 6:00 AM and frequently am still at it at 8:00 PM. I've always been a top performer, but I still worry I'm not productive enough and that I'll get laid off. I still prefer this arrangement to going to the office.

Is this satire? If not I don't think that's a sustainable lifestyle.

You've never met a workaholic... it's sustainable for quite a while, for some.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#223

Post by doubled112 » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 3:30 AM UTC

eulgro wrote: post #207

throw__away7391 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I start work around 6:00 AM and frequently am still at it at 8:00 PM. I've always been a top performer, but I still worry I'm not productive enough and that I'll get laid off. I still prefer this arrangement to going to the office.

Is this satire? If not I don't think that's a sustainable lifestyle.

I know enough people in real life who are doing that regularly to know that isn't satire.

Some of them never seem to get much accomplished, though, so I've often wondered if there is something else at play.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#224

Post by e_y_ » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 3:32 AM UTC

Plasmoid wrote: post #100

r00fus wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thing is, I'm just as supervised at work, honestly (which is to say, not at all). I still have 1:1s with my manager, am still accountable for my targets and organizational goals, and generally do the same thing whether I'm WFH or in office. Office work has several advantages: 1) I like discussing in person with coworkers - sometimes coming up with fun/interesting ideas 2) office itself is more conducive to a particul…

I think RTO would have been a lot more palatable if most offices weren't intentionally built with 1hr+ commutes from residential areas.

I think it's more that residential areas are 1hr+ commutes from offices/downtowns. You could build an office next to a residential area, and some do, but many of the job applicants will be in a different residential area -- often even in a different city. Suburban sprawl, y'all.

You could have smaller offices in different neighborhoods, but there's usually not enough people in any given suburban area to justify an office. Co-working spaces are one compromise but larger companies dislike them for security/secrecy reasons.

I would also add that many people have reasons for not moving closer to work even if they could. Also people are no longer working for decades at the same job, and moving is a hassle if you're changing jobs every few years.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#225

Post by wonderwonder » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 3:32 AM UTC

deaddodo wrote: post #141

lamontcg wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I find it funny that when people were required to be home, employers talked about what great productivity they were getting with people at home. Then when it isn't required anymore, they want everyone back in the office for...productivity. The decades of evidence that open office plans are utter shit for productivity already proved that the emperor wears no clothes and they have no idea what makes for better produc…

Open offices are the literal reason (after commuting/traffic) that I no longer want to go into the office. My work doesn't require a ton of person:person engagement and it's much easier for me to just zone out in my own headspace to do it. When I was required in the office, I would just wear headphones to avoid distractions, but I would have to deal with 2-3hrs of driving/day on top of it. This meant that my employer…

Open offices are terrible. Management knows they are as well because Sr. leadership almost always have their own offices. The peons sit in the pit. Until the CEO is sitting next to everyone else they are all speaking lies when preaching the benefits of an open office. The only benefit is that its cheaper and they can keep an eye on you.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#226

Post by kylixz » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 3:34 AM UTC

I did software work for most of my career and am a huge fan of remote and hybrid arrangements.

But having started a hardware robotics company… it does seem more difficult to run the team remotely. When we get together in person, everything moves faster. We have more equipment. EEs can fix things on the spot. Perception engineers can perceive their algorithm’s behavior in front of their face. We can mitigate safety concerns with proper protections.

I wish we could all be remote, but I think the team does need a component of hybrid to pool resources and move faster. I only say this as there’s a lot of “C-suite bad they just want to micromanage” and I feel like it’s not that simple for many businesses.

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#227

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 3:36 AM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #191

Alupis wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of nuance that isn't discussed in the WFH circles. I don't believe the cynical claims some offer of VC's losing out on real estate deals, or mid-level managers needing to boost their butts-in-seats numbers or whatever. For some, perhaps, but on average? What percentage of long-distance relationships work out long-term? Do you become more or less close with friends after they move out of town? Do you sti…

The social animal bullshit is a myth. You can see it around you everyday. People in public places everywhere spending time on their phones rather than talking to people around them

[deleted]

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#228

Post by benjaminwootton » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 3:36 AM UTC

LapsangGuzzler wrote: post #186

closeparen wrote: post #153

I have a new conspiracy theory on RTO in Big Tech. Much has been said about commercial real estate. But I think getting highly capable people to work hard for you is a difficult problem & something tech executives put a lot of thought into. If you don't pay people enough, someone else will. But if you pay them too much, they'll become financially independent. Mid six figures is an objectively life-changing amount of…

I don’t think it’s really a conspiracy theory, this a fundamental aspect of American capitalism. Health insurance is a perfect example of a carrot that companies want to maintain control over in order to maintain a dedicated workforce. By keeping “affordable” (eye roll) access to healthcare tied to a full time job, they keep butts in seats. This isn’t new or isolated to tech companies. It’s always been about maintain…

I’ve always thought this. Having healthcare primarily accessible through your job must be a strangely subservient place to be. You could literally die if you lose or leave your job!

Im not one for conspiracy theories, but that’s a great position for governments and big business to find themselves in!

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#229

Post by hudon » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 3:36 AM UTC

bagacrap wrote: post #220

csomar wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a conspiracy theory, it's how the system works. You are taxed on pretty much all of your income either from the state, the landlord, the credit card company or the lifestyle obligations that stems from the area you are living in. > And that's right where they want you. This is the part where we diverge, and I think where people confuse emerging phenomena for conspiracy. There is no one orchestrating this.

It seems that everything is a tax to you. What would you like to spend your money on besides lifestyle?

they're not saying lifestyle expenses are a tax in themselves, but rather the inflation on the lifestyle expense is a tax (ie. "cost of living"), as well as the need for certain expenses to begin with (eg. the need for a nanny because both parents need to work long hours bc of high COL and commute times)

Re: 80% of bosses say they regret earlier return-to-office plans

#230

Post by wonderwonder » Sat, Aug 12, 2023, 3:37 AM UTC

throw__away7391 wrote: post #194

SoftTalker wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, when I work from home, I watch TV all day. Not literally -- I mostly read HN and other sites, do personal email, do household tasks, walk the dogs, do a load of laundry. I still get my work done, to a "meets expectations" level, which takes me a few hours, normally right after lunch, and that's good enough for me.

I start work around 6:00 AM and frequently am still at it at 8:00 PM. I've always been a top performer, but I still worry I'm not productive enough and that I'll get laid off. I still prefer this arrangement to going to the office.

This used to be me until I burned out for the second time about 4 years ago. Got a new job and now for the most part I "work" from 9 - 5 but in reality a solid 3 hours of that is just surfing the web. Still get good reviews but I'm not on the verge of collapse so thats pretty good. I just genuinely don't care so much anymore and its worked wonders for my outlook on life.