The crash of Air France flight 447 (2021)
admiralcloudberg.medium.com
The crash of Air France flight 447 (2021)
1–10 of 231 posts
Re: The crash of Air France flight 447 (2021)
#2It's kind of amazing how many of these accidents can come down to the pilots forgetting the most basic things.
In this case, ultimately, the pilot and the co-pilot were exerting opposite controls. One to pull up, one to push the nose down. In a stall you push the nose down to gain aerodynamic lift. That's like Flying 101. But I guess when you panic, the natural instinct of wanting to pull up kicks in when you're rapidly losing altitude. Still, training?
I saw another one the other day: Ethiopian Air Flight 961 [1] from 1996. This accidently ultimately came down to a single switch being on: manual cabin pressurization. This was on because a pilot reported an error in a previous flight and maintenance were trying to replicate it. The pilots (and passengers) passed out from hypoxia and didn't put on their oxygen masks. Again, not putting on your mask? Pretty basic. Also, Flying 101. If you lose (or don't have) pressurization, drop your altitutde. You get below 8000 feet and you're fine.
There was an error but it wasn't ignored and it wasn't entirely obvious, causing revisions to be made. Also, hypoxia can impair judgement very quickly. But why keep climbing when something is wrong?
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_Airlines_Flight_961
Re: The crash of Air France flight 447 (2021)
#3It's kind of amazing how many of these accidents can come down to the pilots forgetting the most basic things. In this case, ultimately, the pilot and the co-pilot were exerting opposite controls. One to pull up, one to push the nose down. In a stall you push the nose down to gain aerodynamic lift. That's like Flying 101. But I guess when you panic, the natural instinct of wanting to pull up kicks in when you're rapi…
> Unlike most other airliners, the control sticks on Airbus models are not mechanically linked and the pilots cannot directly feel what the other pilot is doing.
This is a very bad design - at a bare minimum an incredibly loud and annoying alarm should go off if the pilots are fighting controls, because neither knows what the plane is receiving as an input.
Re: The crash of Air France flight 447 (2021)
#499% Invisible had a great podcast on this … it’s a particularly interesting listen with all the frothing over AI.
https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/children-of-the-magen...
Re: The crash of Air France flight 447 (2021)
#5It's kind of amazing how many of these accidents can come down to the pilots forgetting the most basic things. In this case, ultimately, the pilot and the co-pilot were exerting opposite controls. One to pull up, one to push the nose down. In a stall you push the nose down to gain aerodynamic lift. That's like Flying 101. But I guess when you panic, the natural instinct of wanting to pull up kicks in when you're rapi…
Even as a flying novice, I was screaming to myself when they kept trying to pull up in a stall. I guess there had to have been some element of panic clouding their judgement, which is why pilots need to drill routine into their head so hard.
Re: The crash of Air France flight 447 (2021)
#6It's kind of amazing how many of these accidents can come down to the pilots forgetting the most basic things. In this case, ultimately, the pilot and the co-pilot were exerting opposite controls. One to pull up, one to push the nose down. In a stall you push the nose down to gain aerodynamic lift. That's like Flying 101. But I guess when you panic, the natural instinct of wanting to pull up kicks in when you're rapi…
The alarm in question was the same one used for invalid takeoff configuration, as hypoxia was already setting in.
Re: The crash of Air France flight 447 (2021)
#7Perhaps these pilots were "Children of the Magenta"[1] ?
These AA instructional videos by Captain Vanderburgh are fascinating - even to a non-pilot like myself.
They are especially relevant as we dip our toes into automobile auto-pilot and the "automation dependency" that comes along with it.
Of particular note in this video:
@ 12:30: "... tactily connected to the airplane ..."
@ 14:15: "... we see automation dependent crews, lacking confidence in their own ability to fly an airplane are turning to ther autopilot ..."
@ 17:35 - 18:15: (just listen)
Re: The crash of Air France flight 447 (2021)
#8I hate me for watching the news about it on that time.
That's the flight that seeing all the details about on television gave me the fear of flying that I have these days, specially when above the ocean.
I just can't overcome this.
Re: The crash of Air France flight 447 (2021)
#9It's kind of amazing how many of these accidents can come down to the pilots forgetting the most basic things. In this case, ultimately, the pilot and the co-pilot were exerting opposite controls. One to pull up, one to push the nose down. In a stall you push the nose down to gain aerodynamic lift. That's like Flying 101. But I guess when you panic, the natural instinct of wanting to pull up kicks in when you're rapi…
Thats makes me think of the guy who disappeared flying a Cessna test flight to Tasmania, his last report he was talking of a large object descending on him. They rekon he had lost his sense of which way up he was and it is common to fly upside down. He was likely describing the ocean. I recall reading bigger planes can also fly upside down for long distances without piloting, maybe something like that was going on. If you think you are the wrong way up and try to get down, you are going to go up.
here is the story - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disappearance_of_Frederick_Val...
Re: The crash of Air France flight 447 (2021)
#10It's kind of amazing how many of these accidents can come down to the pilots forgetting the most basic things. In this case, ultimately, the pilot and the co-pilot were exerting opposite controls. One to pull up, one to push the nose down. In a stall you push the nose down to gain aerodynamic lift. That's like Flying 101. But I guess when you panic, the natural instinct of wanting to pull up kicks in when you're rapi…
Are you thinking of Helios Airways Flight 522? That Ethiopian Airlines flight was a hijacking.