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Private equity: A fee too far [pdf]

russellsage.org

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Re: Private equity: A fee too far [pdf]

#3
I am sorry but this bothers me to no end. (Why is nobody seeing it as i do :)

> One issue the regulatory agency raised was conflict of interest [… between managers and stakeholders]

combined with

> Mr Sudarskis argues that the most vulnerable parties are not the investors, who recieve a share of the fees and willingly sign a contract with their fund managers, _but portfolio companies._

This conflict of interest goes far beyond the monetary aristocracy!

Am i the only one who sees it between the interest of individuals vs society?! Is this question so darn complex or am i the crazy one here?

This article dares to speak about "extraction" but does not reflect one key metric: reinvestment/saving rate (down to the individual/per income). A household with small margins is much more impacted by greedflation and much more unlikely to not spend and hand down absurd wealth.

So i humbly cannot contain another dull question: Extracting from and to whom in general?

The reason why it bothers me so much is, you can see this elefant everywhere ... and the guys standing around, arguing what snake its tail might be.

Re: Private equity: A fee too far [pdf]

#4

I am sorry but this bothers me to no end. (Why is nobody seeing it as i do :) > One issue the regulatory agency raised was conflict of interest [… between managers and stakeholders] combined with > Mr Sudarskis argues that the most vulnerable parties are not the investors, who recieve a share of the fees and willingly sign a contract with their fund managers, _but portfolio companies._ This conflict of interest goes…

Some people even claim that this is a natural process. But this phenomenon is most visible in the US and UK. It is the logical result of privatization and market liberalization from past decades. Power and wealth has shifted from the commons to private ownership and this is only going to continue.

Of course this would be a different story if private actors had to play by the same rules, but if you amass enough capital, you are „too big to fail“ for capitalism and your losses are paid by the public.

Too big to fail should nowadays be called „too big to exist“.

Re: Private equity: A fee too far [pdf]

#5
If someone wants to buy a company and liquidate it, that's up to them. If they make a profit then they're actually adding value. If they don't they will soon stop. Doing it via fees and loans is no different to just a straight liquidation as far as I can see. And since all the owners/investors are willingly taking part of they lose their money, that's on them.

It's sad that people's jobs get eliminated. But we have accepted (for good reason) that jobs are never guaranteed. So that's life.

Everything else here is basically just fear-mongering.

Re: Private equity: A fee too far [pdf]

#6
I'm not sure I understand the concern:

- company is bought in a LBO by a PE company

- PE company has onerous fees as a part of the buyout agree (which the target company agrees to)

- the victim are institutional investors who pay these high fees, but were willing partners to the LBO

I mean it sounds like one group of people from Wall Street trying to rip off another group from Wall Street.

Can't the institutional investors just pull their investment if they think it's a bad deal? Can't they read the fine print on the LBO deal?

Do we need to somehow protect institutional investors who manage tens of billions of dollars? Are they a victim that needs protection?

How is it all that different from a company owned by a majority shareholder who makes bad business deals? What do institutional investors do then? Presumably they use their voting power to stop it, or else just exit their position?

Re: Private equity: A fee too far [pdf]

#7

If someone wants to buy a company and liquidate it, that's up to them. If they make a profit then they're actually adding value. If they don't they will soon stop. Doing it via fees and loans is no different to just a straight liquidation as far as I can see. And since all the owners/investors are willingly taking part of they lose their money, that's on them. It's sad that people's jobs get eliminated. But we have a…

The main point of this article is the conflicting interests of greedy managers.

> If they make a profit then they're actually adding value.

Martin Skrelli. [0]

Please tell me what and where his added value is. And please no fear mongering about the rich getting poorer.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Shkreli

Re: Private equity: A fee too far [pdf]

#8

If someone wants to buy a company and liquidate it, that's up to them. If they make a profit then they're actually adding value. If they don't they will soon stop. Doing it via fees and loans is no different to just a straight liquidation as far as I can see. And since all the owners/investors are willingly taking part of they lose their money, that's on them. It's sad that people's jobs get eliminated. But we have a…

The main point of this article is the conflicting interests of greedy managers. > If they make a profit then they're actually adding value. Martin Skrelli. [0] Please tell me what and where his added value is. And please no fear mongering about the rich getting poorer. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Shkreli

The value is in the resources of the company being liquidated. Right now, those resources are being used to produce $X per year in profit. But if we sold them all, and just put the cash in a bank we could get $Y in interest. Make sense?

If Y>X then the best thing to do is liquidate the company.

An example might help: imagine you have a steel mill, and it makes just $1000 a year. Someone from Canada comes to you and says "I'll give you 50m for the mill, I want to take all the equipment to Canada where there is a shortage of steel". He will fulfil more demand at a better price by doing that (hence he will offer 50m for a steel mill that only makes a pittance in the USA). And you can't ake the 50mil and build something people actually need (like a refinery since gas prices are really high etc).

Does that make sense?

It's about allocating resources. And stopping them being allocated to things people won't actually pay for (steel production when no one wants steel) so that they can be allocated to things people do want (more gas during a gas shortage).

Resource allocation is actually really really critical both in general and in high efficiency, capital intensive economies like ours. Doing this well is basically why capitalism beats communism in terms of growth.

Obviously profit is not everything. And we should help people made unemployed. But continuing to waste resources just makes everyone poorer. It's just quite an oblique way of doing what amounts to central planning but with no need for a single centre and doing it faster and smarter...

Re: Private equity: A fee too far [pdf]

#9
post #6

I'm not sure I understand the concern: - company is bought in a LBO by a PE company - PE company has onerous fees as a part of the buyout agree (which the target company agrees to) - the victim are institutional investors who pay these high fees, but were willing partners to the LBO I mean it sounds like one group of people from Wall Street trying to rip off another group from Wall Street. Can't the institutional inv…

> Can't the institutional investors just pull their investment if they think it's a bad deal? Can't they read the fine print on the LBO deal?

I can think of a few reasons why they don't.

They need 'uncorrelated returns' which PE provides, and it might be worth paying extra fees for this. That does not mean the fees are fair, it just means there is not enough competition. Also institutional investors might not perfectly rational and informed, as the article notes some of these fees are somewhat obscured and investors might be looking more at direct management fees. Relatedly, there is probably an asymmetry of skills and power, as institutional investors are second or third tier firms whereas PE firms are top tier. Finally, there is the usual agency problem, institutional investors are not sufficiently incentivised to reduce fees, because the fees are effectively paid by people who put the money in the funds, namely you and I, via pension funds or sovereign wealth funds.

> Do we need to somehow protect institutional investors who manage tens of billions of dollars? Are they a victim that needs protection?

We need to protect the people who ultimately put the money in the funds, not the chain of asset managers extracting their rents on top of it. Historically for PE these were high net worth individuals, so nobody cared, but nowadays they are California's teachers and Japanese pensioners.

> How is it all that different from a company owned by a majority shareholder who makes bad business deals? What do institutional investors do then? Presumably they use their voting power to stop it, or else just exit their position?

It is a similar agency problem I think. It's easier if you're investing directly in companies, because there are many companies competing with each other to attract institutional investors' money, so they care more about making investors happy.

The underlying question is why aren't PE firms competing with each other to provide lower management fees to attract more institutional money. This has happened in public market funds, with Vanguard for example providing very low fees. But for some reason it doesn't seem to happen in private markets. PE firms compete on where to put the money, trying to win deals against each other, but do not seem to compete that much on where they get the money. I don't know why. It could be that quantitative easing made money so abundant that they had more money than deals to spend it on, so there was no reason to compete.

Edit: to be fair this seems to be happening somewhat now [1]

[1] https://www.ft.com/content/05b0d935-678b-418c-8a86-b1a99bb04...

Re: Private equity: A fee too far [pdf]

#10

If someone wants to buy a company and liquidate it, that's up to them. If they make a profit then they're actually adding value. If they don't they will soon stop. Doing it via fees and loans is no different to just a straight liquidation as far as I can see. And since all the owners/investors are willingly taking part of they lose their money, that's on them. It's sad that people's jobs get eliminated. But we have a…

You fail to see how parasitic modern US capitalism has become.

US capitalism has been extremely productive but the gains in productivity have disproportionally distributed to shareholders, and employees got the short end of the stick. [1]

And this isn't capitalism problem btw. This is a corporate culture problem.

[1] https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/

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