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Vim Boss

neovim.io

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Re: Vim Boss

#51

Post by nektro »

deltarholamda wrote: post #11
djha-skin wrote: post #7

I'm shocked. I've been a vim user my whole life. I use neovim lately, but I didn't even know Bram was dead. I've never interacted with him personally, but I've interacted with the tool he wrote and the documentation he wrote almost on a daily basis. Vim is part of me. I know the project will likely continue, but I can't help but thinking: what now? It brings up this issue of death in software for me. Software is gett…

There is another thread on HN about vim development going forward, posted on the Google Group for vim development. Christian Brabandt mentions several issues that will need to be resolved, e.g. the hosting situation for the site. I feel that this would be an ideal thing for one of the various open source foundations to address. I.e., provide a single-source hosting environment for open source projects without needing…

https://sourcehut.org/ fits this pretty well

Re: Vim Boss

#52

Post by emerongi »

Vim has soul. It is that chisel you inherited from your grandpa that you keep using. It fits well in your grip and is comfortable, even though it lacks the soft rubber that the new ones in the store have. It's a tool with its own history.

Reading the comments here, it seems that the hacker's mentality still lives on. The new young billion-dollar company will be replaced in another 10-20 years. Vim lives on. I wish to build a Vim of my own one day.

Re: Vim Boss

#53

Post by graphviz »

deltarholamda wrote: post #11
djha-skin wrote: post #7

I'm shocked. I've been a vim user my whole life. I use neovim lately, but I didn't even know Bram was dead. I've never interacted with him personally, but I've interacted with the tool he wrote and the documentation he wrote almost on a daily basis. Vim is part of me. I know the project will likely continue, but I can't help but thinking: what now? It brings up this issue of death in software for me. Software is gett…

There is another thread on HN about vim development going forward, posted on the Google Group for vim development. Christian Brabandt mentions several issues that will need to be resolved, e.g. the hosting situation for the site. I feel that this would be an ideal thing for one of the various open source foundations to address. I.e., provide a single-source hosting environment for open source projects without needing…

What? Project founders and software authors might not always be around?

Re: Vim Boss

#54

Post by dmvdoug »

topher200 wrote: post #34
bilekas wrote: post #8

So often we hear after someone dies how great they really where when infact they were like most people, a mixed bag. We all have ups and downs etc. There are some though that really do live up to the postmortem messages and for sure Bram is one of them, i was lucky to meet him and actually spend some time shooting shit with him. At the time i didn't realize how big a deal he was, it was only later i would actually ge…

I occasionally ponder on how frustrating it is that the deceased don't get to hear their eulogies. It would have been amazing for Bram to have been able to experience all the outpouring of support and love from people he is interacted with during his life. Especially in a context where the speakers aren't considering him as an audience -- they're sharing their deep and true feelings. No one can really be sure how the…

This is why I always make it a point to tell people how much I appreciate them and why (when I do, I mean). It can be awkward at first, but I’ve developed a good self-deprecation that lets me excuse myself for being gushy (“I might start crying; I’m a crier!”), and that disarms people for the most part. I think it’s really important that we let people know how much we value them and why we honor/respect them when we do. Because most of us do wander through life in a cloud of unknowing and uncertainty.

Re: Vim Boss

#55

Post by coldtea »

falcolas wrote: post #32
coldtea wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand this point, and I tried to parse it and still don't. (...) If vim maintainers don't want neovim to exist, they should have accepted the merges earlier. If they disagree with the merges (which I think they did), then that power doesn't belong in Vim anyways It's a very simple point to understand: whether the merges are good or not, the presence of a fork still "splits the Vim community and takes p…

What splits it more, IMO, is that neovim went in a non-compatible direction with many of their design choices. They have good arguments for doing so, but it still means that writing community plugins that can work with either version of vim is inherently harder.

I guess if they haven't gotten in a non-compatible direction, then they wouldn't have made enough change to guarantee a fork.

Re: Vim Boss

#56

Post by jfax »

topher200 wrote: post #34
bilekas wrote: post #8

So often we hear after someone dies how great they really where when infact they were like most people, a mixed bag. We all have ups and downs etc. There are some though that really do live up to the postmortem messages and for sure Bram is one of them, i was lucky to meet him and actually spend some time shooting shit with him. At the time i didn't realize how big a deal he was, it was only later i would actually ge…

I occasionally ponder on how frustrating it is that the deceased don't get to hear their eulogies. It would have been amazing for Bram to have been able to experience all the outpouring of support and love from people he is interacted with during his life. Especially in a context where the speakers aren't considering him as an audience -- they're sharing their deep and true feelings. No one can really be sure how the…

That's what birthdays are for. I like to think, anyway.

Re: Vim Boss

#57

Post by coldtea »

anon7331 wrote: post #30
coldtea wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Never meant to be cryptographically secure" should never go together with "encrypt/decrypt file capability". This can even mean someone's loss of life in the right (meaning wrong) regime, or property (e.g. storing bitcoin info there). It's like advertising a "self-driving technology" when your car needs human supervision to not crash and kill you or someone you fall into.

I am not sure it's so black and white with encryption. It depends on your threat model. Keeping it secure from an angry ex-girlfriend is one thing, but keeping it secure from a three letter agency is another. The mistake you are referring to is someone that assumes "encrypted" means three letter agency safe, which is a pretty terrible way to leverage encryption. In that case, it's exactly like hopping in a Tesla and…

>The mistake you are referring to is someone that assumes "encrypted" means three letter agency safe, which is a pretty terrible way to leverage encryption.

That's not a mistake, that's table stakes. People reading that X offers "encryption", should assume its cryptographically safe to the standards of the day, and be given that.

Not just some "safe from your spouse, ...maybe..." glorified rot13.

Else, just don't offer it. It's not Vim's place to offer "file encryption" anyway, especially if they can't keep that promise. It's fine not to offer it.

And it doesn't have to be a "three letter agency" that's the threat. The "angry ex-girlfriend" could might as well be a programmer. Or have a script-kiddie nephew. Or know a person or two who can use off-the-shelf tools to decrypt it. And the file might have things like a person's bank account passwords.

Re: Vim Boss

#58

Post by halifaxbeard »

block_dagger wrote: post #42
beachy wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Off topic but your comment makes me think of Nick Drake. He died at 26, before even knowing he'd achieved anything, his music barely listened to, probably feeling a failure. Posthumously he's one of the world's most acclaimed recording artists. RIP Bram.

Good example, although Van Gogh is probably the more cited.

“The Doctor and Amy take Vincent Van Gogh - who struggled to sell a single painting in his own lifetime - to a Paris art Gallery in the year 2010”

https://youtu.be/ubTJI_UphPk

Re: Vim Boss

#59

Post by LexiMax »

coldtea wrote: post #29
SpaceManNabs wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because they believe it splits the Vim community and takes people power away from Vim development I don't understand this point, and I tried to parse it and still don't. (I understand that you are just relaying it). If vim maintainers don't want neovim to exist, they should have accepted the merges earlier. If they disagree with the merges (which I think they did), then that power doesn't belong in Vim anyways. edi…

> I don't understand this point, and I tried to parse it and still don't. (...) If vim maintainers don't want neovim to exist, they should have accepted the merges earlier. If they disagree with the merges (which I think they did), then that power doesn't belong in Vim anyways It's a very simple point to understand: whether the merges are good or not, the presence of a fork still "splits the Vim community and takes p…

> That's regardless of people "having the right to fork". Yes they do. But also yes, if they exercize that right, they do split a community and divert interest from a project to 2 projects.

You're not dividing the same-sized pie.

The alternative to a fork is a single project with fewer contributors.

The alternative to two communities is a single community that's not as large as the two would've been, with a good chunk of those remaining having unfulfilled wishes or unheard complaints.

The alternative to Vim as it is today is very likely Vim without a a few of its new features and improvements that came with Vim 8 and 9.

Forks are good.

Re: Vim Boss

#60

Post by __MatrixMan__ »

RGBCube wrote: post #17
RetroTechie wrote: post #15

Thought a linked article: https://j11g.com/2023/08/07/the-legacy-of-bram-moolenaar/ By Jan van den Berg, was a better read. One quote: "Vim is a masterpiece, the gleaming precise machining tool from which so much of modernity was crafted". And then this link: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eX9m3g5J-XA "7 Habits for Effective Text Editing 2.0" 1h20m - If anyone has a transcript or summary: plz. But this was funny - fir…

> Disclaimer: I'm not even user of either of (Neo)vim or Emacs. As soon as I read "programmable", I'm off. I just prefer fixed-function editor that suits my taste , a few minutes of configuration & go. But that's just me, what do I know? Then Helix may be for you! It uses the Kakoune keybinds, which make SO MUCH SENSE compared to Vim or Emacs. And it's already pre configured and includes a lot of useful features. I h…

I've been a happy vimmer for 15 years. I've been dabbling in helix for a month and liking it a lot. The ast-aware selection capabilities--while not habit yet--feel like a fledgling superpower.
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