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Why I Left Google

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271–280 of 322 posts

Re: Why I Left Google

#271
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree for the most part that Google is not "fighting for it's life", though I think it has faltered a bit. > people are not defecting away from search to use Facebook's search or Bing or whatever. You are perhaps missing the point a little. It doesn't matter what people are doing, it's what advertisers are doing. The fact that everyone still uses Google search won't be worth much if advertisers are only interested…

Every time I hear concern that advertisers will suddenly throw all their money at Facebook instead of Google, I am reminded of my experiments at Facebook advertising and the 0.00[...]001% click-through rate I achieved after a few dozen attempts. This notion is laughable. The notion that Facebook will look into the minds of my friends and determine the answers I am searching for is also laughable. The fact is that the…

Facebook ads are far more relevant to me than google ads. But then I'm quite free with my posts and likes on facebook. IE, I'm using it as they envision.

I've clicked many, many more ads on FB than I ever have on Google.

Re: Why I Left Google

#272

To understand why Google isn't what it used to be, one has to understand what happened in 2009-2011. This is the era when Google decided to get "real managers" and they hired a bunch of executives from places like Oracle, IBM, and Intel. If Google had told them to wipe their fucking feet off before tracking shitty culture into the place, it might have survived. It didn't. Google has an immense amount of talent "under…

You are truly either delusional or an attention-monger that needs to troll to feel better about yourself. Like cletus mentioned, many people reached out to offer you constructive advice. You ignored everyone, thought yourself superior to everyone. I bet you were just waiting to be the first to comment, no? You did well...not only did you throw Google under the bus, you also threw California under the bus. Learn to ha…

> thought yourself superior to everyone.

I'm really disturbed by this. I'm not a stranger to being the smartest person in the room - it happens from time to time - but, while interviewing at Google (I did it a couple times), I was always amazed with my interviewers, who were, with no exceptions, exceedingly smart people.

Re: Why I Left Google

#273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are truly either delusional or an attention-monger that needs to troll to feel better about yourself. Like cletus mentioned, many people reached out to offer you constructive advice. You ignored everyone, thought yourself superior to everyone. I bet you were just waiting to be the first to comment, no? You did well...not only did you throw Google under the bus, you also threw California under the bus. Learn to ha…

I'm going to take you seriously even though you don't deserve it. Any rip on a state with 50 million people in it is somewhat in jest. Anyway, there are a lot of great things about "California culture". When applied to technology, an open-minded and experimental "Let's try it" mentality is great. Necessary, even. When applied to management without enough attention paid to the fact that some of the people posing ideas…

[deleted]

Re: Why I Left Google

#274
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are Microsoft engineers encouraged from top down to do this? I'm an IC, and while there is bit a "boo Google" going on in the kool-aid, we don't sit around shaking our fist at them every moment we get. I try to use the best tools I can, whether it be that made by Google or MSFT or someone else. I look up MSDN documentation using Chrome, and I wouldn't have it any other way.

This might just be a one off case that I heard of, but isn't not using IE shunned at MS? A classmate of mine interned there and was asked to use IE instead of FF. He did end up not hating the product, but I am not sure if the reason was love for IE or hatred towards not-MS products.

No it isn't shunned... i regularly use chrome at Microsoft, Some peers stick to Microsoft products but I see a lot of people carrying iphone/androids around and using chrome and FF

Re: Why I Left Google

#275
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I'm working on a new product at Google that will make computers do something that they've never done before, something that many people have wanted for a long time. There are 2 things I've wanted for a long time: A search engine for stuff in my house, so that I never have to sift through drawers for hours ever again. A cheap robot for cleaning dishes, washing clothes, cleaning the house. The current solut…

have you read doctorow's "makers"? he presents a reasonably plausible way in which a "search for stuff in your house" system could evolve (based on dirt cheap and deeply unobtrusive rfid tags you simply attach to everything)

Attaching rfid tags (or anything) to everything sounds like a very inefficient and impractical solution. I think I have a better idea involving other types of sensors. I just need another life to work on it.

Re: Why I Left Google

#276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did anyone ever question you for being full of it? Judging from the tone only... Why did you get defensive in the end ("google isn't perfect..." = "water is wet", no, really)?

Yes, this was certainly questioned. His threads on internal engineering lists (adopting this tone after just a few months at Google) are somewhat legendary. I'd caution anyone from forming an impression of the company from mchurch.

Actually, my reply was to cletus. I don't know either of them but he seems just too much overboard with kissing the management in the but.

Re: Why I Left Google

#277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to take you seriously even though you don't deserve it. Any rip on a state with 50 million people in it is somewhat in jest. Anyway, there are a lot of great things about "California culture". When applied to technology, an open-minded and experimental "Let's try it" mentality is great. Necessary, even. When applied to management without enough attention paid to the fact that some of the people posing ideas…

I think I agree that the existence of downslotting was a mistake. However, the problem it was attempting to solve (you got hired at one level, but performed at a lower level, because you managed to fool people in the interview) is a real one and there is no good solution for it. So I appreciate that they tried to find one, and realized their attempt didn't work, and tried something else. If management was easy, we co…

However, the problem it was attempting to solve (you got hired at one level, but performed at a lower level, because you managed to fool people in the interview) is a real one and there is no good solution for it.

These levels are a convenient fiction. Performance is way too context-dependent to believe that there's some "platonic" level for each engineer. This (http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2012/01/26/the-trajector...) is the best model I could come up with for the software engineer trajectory, and even it has a 0.2 to 0.4 point (out of 3.0) swing for most individuals based on technology choices, interpersonal topologies, motivational flux, etc.

What you mean is "some people don't work out". Right. So there are people you "manage out" (that is, try to get them to find another job and fire them after ~6 months if they don't get the hint and you absolutely have to) and there are people you work with to bring them up to speed, or to figure out what's blocking them. Typical management stuff. What doesn't work is to keep people around but at a lower level than they were promised in the hiring process. That just creates a class of miserable, shafted people who hate their jobs and the company they work for.

By the way, a lot of the idiots on this subthread think I'm airing personal gripes. I joined after slotting. I'm just pointing out what kinds of ridiculous results come from an out-of-touch management culture. What drove me insane at Google was being at a company where the engineers were so good at their jobs and yet the people making important decisions were so epically bad. The disconnect was shocking. I was watching an awesome company self-destruct in front of me.

Also, on downslotting: careers are sensitive things and once you make one overt move so directly against an employee's interests, you've essentially lost that person. Loyalty is pretty much binary. Once you make a move like that on someone, you now have someone whose full-time interest is career repair, which usually involves getting the fuck out and lining up the next job. If this is what you want, then fine. (If someone really is a bad fit, for that person to begin full-time job searching is the best thing.) That category doesn't encompass most of the company. Downslotting only makes sense as a mechanism for managing people out, and (1) there are better ways of doing that, and (2) you shouldn't be managing out over 50% of new hires.

The real reason for slotting, I think, was to put a better job title in the offer letter than people were actually expected to get, since the upper title is what was used. This works only because of Google's brand: what keeps it from doing major damage is that downslotted people have the Google name on their resumes and can get the fuck out long before they become "problem employees".

Re: Why I Left Google

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Google sells YOUR personal information that you do NOT want to share to advertisers. According to Google, this is not true. https://www.google.com/search?q=Google+does+not+share+person...

Just a nitpick... but is there a particular link in these results that you want us to view? There's probably ample evidence to support your claim, but linking to search results doesn't seem all that helpful. (If Google is still personalizing web searches or if someone has blocked a domain from their results we could be looking at different lists.)

He just means that there is no reference to 'Google does not share personal information with advertisers' on the internet.

Re: Why I Left Google

#279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But if you're able to get behind Google+ in the first place, and you're able to call a move from Google to Microsoft an improvement, it's a pretty safe bet there isn't an entrepreneurial bone in your body. And it's not as if the guy's a hacker, either. He's some kind of suit, or polo shirt at best. I think it's pretty safe to bet that you don't like MS at all. There is a lot of cool stuff happening there and to pain…

Do you own winsupersite.com or something?

No, I don't

Re: Why I Left Google

#280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suppose 'lock in' was the wrong choice of words to use. I understand that the data is only there because I chose to auto-upload it, and I also understand that I can easily re-upload the photo to facebook, but my point was that Google themselves are actively preventing me from doing something like that through the Picasa interface. I think you understood the meaning behind my point, but I'd argue that they shouldn't…

"Actively preventing"? How?

By not allowing users to share directly from their plus.google.com interface, to twitter/facebook.
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