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Vim Boss

neovim.io

11–20 of 123 posts

Re: Vim Boss

#11

I'm shocked. I've been a vim user my whole life. I use neovim lately, but I didn't even know Bram was dead. I've never interacted with him personally, but I've interacted with the tool he wrote and the documentation he wrote almost on a daily basis. Vim is part of me. I know the project will likely continue, but I can't help but thinking: what now? It brings up this issue of death in software for me. Software is gett…

There is another thread on HN about vim development going forward, posted on the Google Group for vim development. Christian Brabandt mentions several issues that will need to be resolved, e.g. the hosting situation for the site.

I feel that this would be an ideal thing for one of the various open source foundations to address. I.e., provide a single-source hosting environment for open source projects without needing to lean on for-profit corporations, which would include some form of hit-by-a-bus solution for those projects that lose a core (or sole) developer.

Trying to piece this stuff together after the fact is always a chore. And no amount of "well, they should have a plan in place" will help. People don't think they're going to die tomorrow, so there's always a reason to put it off for later, so they do.

I don't think anybody's worried about Linux going poof if Linus unexpectantly returns to his home planet, but there are plenty of projects that might have some issues. Having all of the domains, DNS, hosting, etc. somewhere with a real employee that can be contacted to move control to new people if required is a good thing.

Re: Vim Boss

#12

I once interviewed an intern candidate who bragged about getting into an argument with Bram on the mailing lists over a possible vulnerability. Bram insisted it was not important, and this young gun insisted it was. We didn't hire the guy. It's interesting seeing these memorials for Bram, from what people say he was the polar opposite of this kid in a good way.

at least they cared enough to stick to their guns i guess

Re: Vim Boss

#13

I once interviewed an intern candidate who bragged about getting into an argument with Bram on the mailing lists over a possible vulnerability. Bram insisted it was not important, and this young gun insisted it was. We didn't hire the guy. It's interesting seeing these memorials for Bram, from what people say he was the polar opposite of this kid in a good way.

at least they cared enough to stick to their guns i guess

Indeed, not 100% clear but it felt like GP was criticizing the kid.

The kid enters a security related conversation and Bram not only listens but engages in the conversation. Seems like you missed on a great hire.

Re: Vim Boss

#14

It is nice to see tasteful and profitable disagreement in place of simple drama. It's a credit to all parties.

Is there any disagreement on who is going to support Vim moving forward?

I can see the fork maintainers going into a power struggle if the future is unclear. Maybe some will even write fluffy pieces on how much they loved Bram to gather support...

Re: Vim Boss

#15
Thought a linked article:

https://j11g.com/2023/08/07/the-legacy-of-bram-moolenaar/

By Jan van den Berg, was a better read. One quote:

"Vim is a masterpiece, the gleaming precise machining tool from which so much of modernity was crafted".

And then this link:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eX9m3g5J-XA

"7 Habits for Effective Text Editing 2.0"

1h20m - If anyone has a transcript or summary: plz. But this was funny - first comment:

"I let auto play go on while I was sleeping for 7 hours and went from Billie Eilish to this"

Life is weird but I love it :-)

Disclaimer: I'm not even user of either (Neo)vim or Emacs. As soon as I read "programmable", I'm off. I just prefer fixed-function editor that suits my taste , a few minutes of configuration & go. But that's just me, what do I know?

That said: good tools serve a purpose. Our world is a better place with good tools in it - and the ppl who made those tools. And sometimes their legacy, their philosophy, their way of doing things, lives on in the code (or the community!) they left behind. So kudoz to Bram!

Re: Vim Boss

#16
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

at least they cared enough to stick to their guns i guess

Indeed, not 100% clear but it felt like GP was criticizing the kid. The kid enters a security related conversation and Bram not only listens but engages in the conversation. Seems like you missed on a great hire.

Bram listened to and engaged in most conversations, I think. He was very approachable.

Re: Vim Boss

#17

Thought a linked article: https://j11g.com/2023/08/07/the-legacy-of-bram-moolenaar/ By Jan van den Berg, was a better read. One quote: "Vim is a masterpiece, the gleaming precise machining tool from which so much of modernity was crafted". And then this link: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eX9m3g5J-XA "7 Habits for Effective Text Editing 2.0" 1h20m - If anyone has a transcript or summary: plz. But this was funny - fir…

> Disclaimer: I'm not even user of either of (Neo)vim or Emacs. As soon as I read "programmable", I'm off. I just prefer fixed-function editor that suits my taste , a few minutes of configuration & go. But that's just me, what do I know?

Then Helix may be for you! It uses the Kakoune keybinds, which make SO MUCH SENSE compared to Vim or Emacs. And it's already pre configured and includes a lot of useful features. I have been daily driving it and it's pretty fast and good. Since it automatically uses LSPs if they are in the PATH, it requires very minimal configuration, my configuration only includes theme and some stylistic changes, you can take a look at it if you'd like: https://github.com/RGBCube/NixOSConfiguration/blob/master/ma...

Re: Vim Boss

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sorry, what disagreement? I didn't find any in the article.

Some people take issue with NeoVim, because they believe it splits the Vim community and takes people power away from Vim development.

> because they believe it splits the Vim community and takes people power away from Vim development

I don't understand this point, and I tried to parse it and still don't. (I understand that you are just relaying it).

If vim maintainers don't want neovim to exist, they should have accepted the merges earlier. If they disagree with the merges (which I think they did), then that power doesn't belong in Vim anyways.

edit: this reminds me of this conversation from years ago

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14245705

Check DSMan195276's comments.

And finally before I derail, I want to bring stuff back to the focus: RIP Braam.

Re: Vim Boss

#19

I once interviewed an intern candidate who bragged about getting into an argument with Bram on the mailing lists over a possible vulnerability. Bram insisted it was not important, and this young gun insisted it was. We didn't hire the guy. It's interesting seeing these memorials for Bram, from what people say he was the polar opposite of this kid in a good way.

at least they cared enough to stick to their guns i guess

The article talks about modesty and meeting in the middle, but I get the impression that the younger dev didn’t want to budge or understand the other point being made by Bram.

Re: Vim Boss

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sorry, what disagreement? I didn't find any in the article.

Some people take issue with NeoVim, because they believe it splits the Vim community and takes people power away from Vim development.

Some people can't grasp how the world is working.
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