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Bring back the 40-hour work week

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Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week

#41

Post by 18pfsmt »

kamaal wrote: post #24
DanBC wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a programmer who works for 13 hours a day. That programmer does three days in a row of 13 hours. That's 39 hours, not including any travel etc. Give / force them some time off before they can start another block of 40 hour work. "Flow" is mentioned so often, but I'd really like to see some good quality research to back it up. For sure people feel like they're in a zone, but how much of the code produced in t…

A bigger problem is making people think that 60 hour weeks is normal, or honourable, and that a 40 hour week is lazy or disloyal or unproductive or harmful to the company. That's not true, and it's possibly leading to early death of some people. It's certainly making some people miserable. I like working a lot, making great stuff. Some people don't. But that's not my problem. Asking me not to work, just because some…

I didn't down vote, and agree that people should be able to work as much as they want.

However, when I read sloppily written comments with poor grammar and syntax, I always wonder if the author also writes code in a similar manner. I kind of take it as an insult when author's don't do their best to make their work easily understood by others.

Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week

#42

Post by ordinary »

jdietrich wrote: post #36

I keep reading these sort of articles and wondering why the American people seem so opposed to basic employment law. Here in Socialist Yurop, the Working Time Directive means that no employer can compel an employee to work for longer than 48 hours per week. All workers are entitled to a legal minimum of 5.6 weeks of paid holiday. You all seem to agree that you work too long and don't get enough holiday. I've never on…

All workers are entitled to a legal minimum of 5.6 weeks of paid holiday.

This is incorrect. In the Netherlands, at least, 20 days is the legal minimum, though most people get 25.

Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week

#43

Post by maushu »

Zakharov wrote: post #14

And it hurts the country, too. For every four Americans working a 50-hour week, every week, there’s one American who should have a full-time job, but doesn’t. Our rampant unemployment problem would vanish overnight if we simply worked the way we’re supposed to by law. The rest of the article says that 50-hour-a-week employees are no more productive than 40-hour-a-week employees, and don't get paid any more. Where do…

You are confusing productivity as a measure for the number of jobs.

We use man-hours as the measure for the number of jobs, so, if 4 people working 50 (hours a week) start working 40 that leaves 40 hours to be filled by another person (1 more job). Productivity actually increases even if the man-hours are the same.

Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week

#44

Post by Ihavenoname »

kamaal wrote: post #30
DanBC wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is always a peer who is putting in extra hours innovating, building and learning For every peer putting in stupid hours innovating, building and learning there are > 1 peers putting in stupid hours fixing errors of other overworked colleagues or just grinding through the stuff they could have done in 40 hours if they didn't have an asshole boss / broken business culture.

I don't know why you consider working hard as a broken culture.

"Lesson Three is this: five-day weeks of eight-hour days maximize long-term output in every industry that has been studied over the past century. What makes us think that our industry is somehow exempt from this rule?"

http://www.igda.org/why-crunch-modes-doesnt-work-six-lessons

Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week

#45

Post by maushu »

kamaal wrote: post #30
DanBC wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is always a peer who is putting in extra hours innovating, building and learning For every peer putting in stupid hours innovating, building and learning there are > 1 peers putting in stupid hours fixing errors of other overworked colleagues or just grinding through the stuff they could have done in 40 hours if they didn't have an asshole boss / broken business culture.

I don't know why you consider working hard as a broken culture.

It is broken if that "working hard" is not productive.

Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week

#46

Post by bmj »

kamaal wrote: post #34
bmj wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two things that kill my 8-hour-day productivity: 1. Meetings 2. Someone upstream not doing their job. #2 is far worse than #1 (and directly related to the parent's #1). There is truly nothing worse than a project manager who allows requirements to be delivered late, but doesn't push out the deadline for the entire project.

Lets say #2 is not a problem for the minute and you meet somebody like you. He and you do your day job in 8 hrs. But he puts in an additional 5-6 hours a day and is likely to put for the coming years. Now suddenly you will find yourself in a corner as he will grow(in comparison) inevitably. And there will be little you can do. Putting in crazy hours isn't mandatory, but neither is winning and succeeding.

Perhaps I'm just fortunate, but in my current situation, I don't think this would matter much. Sure, my co-worker may get a larger raise, but I'm pretty comfortable with my current salary, and the fact that I can average 40-45 hours a week with a lot of flexibility in when I work those hours. Perhaps one day, my boss will turn evil, and tell me I'm not producing enough, but, at that point, I'll find other work, because I have no interest in working for company that expects 60 hour weeks to be the "norm."

Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week

#47

Post by DanBC »

Daniel_Newby wrote: post #40
DanBC wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't downvote, but you might want to consider comments like > Soon a bunch of girls went Which appears to be fantastically sexist. (Although that's another huge thread.)

How is that sexist?

I was careful to use the word "appears" - it's sexist because there's no need to mention the sex. "A bunch of people" works just as well, and avoids the "macho == works hard" / "girls == wimps" imagery that is problematic.

Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week

#48

Post by jbarham »

jdietrich wrote: post #36

I keep reading these sort of articles and wondering why the American people seem so opposed to basic employment law. Here in Socialist Yurop, the Working Time Directive means that no employer can compel an employee to work for longer than 48 hours per week. All workers are entitled to a legal minimum of 5.6 weeks of paid holiday. You all seem to agree that you work too long and don't get enough holiday. I've never on…

Given that e.g. the unemployment rate in Spain is 23% [1] and Greece is bankrupt, it seems a little quixotic to be highlighting European entitlements for workers, when the more pressing problem is obviously the huge numbers of people who are not working and cannot find work and to whom those entitlements are a bad joke. Indeed, some people might even posit a link between entitlements and the current economic mess in Europe...

1. http://www.economist.com/blogs/newsbook/2012/03/spains-budge...

Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week

#49

Post by [deleted] »

kamaal wrote: post #30
DanBC wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is always a peer who is putting in extra hours innovating, building and learning For every peer putting in stupid hours innovating, building and learning there are > 1 peers putting in stupid hours fixing errors of other overworked colleagues or just grinding through the stuff they could have done in 40 hours if they didn't have an asshole boss / broken business culture.

I don't know why you consider working hard as a broken culture.

[deleted]

Re: Bring back the 40-hour work week

#50

Post by [deleted] »

jdietrich wrote: post #36

I keep reading these sort of articles and wondering why the American people seem so opposed to basic employment law. Here in Socialist Yurop, the Working Time Directive means that no employer can compel an employee to work for longer than 48 hours per week. All workers are entitled to a legal minimum of 5.6 weeks of paid holiday. You all seem to agree that you work too long and don't get enough holiday. I've never on…

[deleted]
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