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The Future of the Vim Project

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Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#91

Post by trealira »

oblio wrote: post #33
fortunateregard wrote: post #17

What is it that prevents the rest of the vim community from adopting neovim? From what I can observe, a great deal already have. But for the folks holding out, what is it that outweighs all that neovim has to offer?

Inertia. Such base programs basically need to go through the Debian packaging gauntlet if they want to succeed. What I mean by that is that generally they need to persuade distros to be anointed the "official" tool, i.e. Debian or Fedora would have to select Neovim as the new default text instead of Vim. Then you need a few years for the changes to trickle down everywhere: Debian -> Ubuntu-> Mint -> ..., Fedora -> RH…

> What I mean by that is that generally they need to persuade distros to be anointed the "official" tool, i.e. Debian or Fedora would have to select Neovim as the new default text instead of Vim.

You're probably right. However, I think it's more likely that the Linux distros drop Vim entirely and make Nano the default editor than that they replace Vim with Neovim.

The BSDs have nvi as the default editor, IIRC, so they won't need to change anything.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#92

Post by mathgorges »

pmckenna wrote: post #37
OskarS wrote: post #13

My brother passed away very suddenly a few years ago, and I was put in charge of wrapping up and archiving his "digital" life. We were very lucky that we had access to a recovery email for his main gmail account (as well as a couple of passwords that his partner knew) and was able to access and archive virtually all data we could think of (services like Google Takeout were invaluable). I realized that if this had hap…

Weirdly this is something I’ve been thinking about a lot recently. I had no idea 1Password provided a recovery kit until you mentioned it. Just had a look and looks good. I’ll definitely go through the steps, but I’m wondering what the best way to store it is. Feels weird keeping a document lying around giving access to all your passwords, bank cards, finances etc. I’ll have a think about storage.

Banks’ safe deposit boxes are a good choice if there are any near you, though they’re often expensive.

If you have a lawyer/attorney that you trust they’re often in the habit of securely storing physical documents, but again, expensive.

Personally, I (a cheap-ass) keep a copy in a wooden box buried underground in a secure location along with a few other things.

However, the security of physical things remains a difficult problem that is most easily solved with money!

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#93

Post by planede »

oblio wrote: post #33
fortunateregard wrote: post #17

What is it that prevents the rest of the vim community from adopting neovim? From what I can observe, a great deal already have. But for the folks holding out, what is it that outweighs all that neovim has to offer?

Inertia. Such base programs basically need to go through the Debian packaging gauntlet if they want to succeed. What I mean by that is that generally they need to persuade distros to be anointed the "official" tool, i.e. Debian or Fedora would have to select Neovim as the new default text instead of Vim. Then you need a few years for the changes to trickle down everywhere: Debian -> Ubuntu-> Mint -> ..., Fedora -> RH…

In what sense vim is default in Debian?

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#94

Post by ncann »

kqr wrote: post #78
OskarS wrote: post #13

My brother passed away very suddenly a few years ago, and I was put in charge of wrapping up and archiving his "digital" life. We were very lucky that we had access to a recovery email for his main gmail account (as well as a couple of passwords that his partner knew) and was able to access and archive virtually all data we could think of (services like Google Takeout were invaluable). I realized that if this had hap…

I'm lucky enough to never have been put in this situation, so please excuse my ignorance: why does someone need to be able to sign in to my accounts when I'm no longer?

If you are perfectly prepared for your passing and made your will, arranged all the financial stuffs, told your friends and family everything needed etc. then you don't need to give access to your accounts. But many people don't have that luxury. When death is unexpected, things get messy, e.g you may want to continue paying the mortgage on time, or shutdown social media accounts, or make announcement of their passing using those accounts, or contact their lawyer, or cancel subscribed services, and so on.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#95

Post by bombcar »

dumpster_fire wrote: post #54
bombcar wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is one of the reasons that I’ve begun to pare down the number of online financial accounts I have, even though churning for bonuses is fun. Every single one will have to be dealt with eventually by someone, so if I can reduce the number of banks I deal with it’s worth it, even at some small cost of not being “perfectly optimal”.

Yeah I used to have a massive spreadsheet tracking the entirety of household finances. I was worried that no one would know where the money was if I suddenly died, so I started a monthly finance 1:1 with my spouse. Even wrote an "upon death or incapacitation" playbook for her. The second session was just her saying WTF I can't keep track of the location, ownership and tax benefits of 40 accounts! I've since closed 3/…

The killer for me was working out how much time I was spending playing Excel Warrior and how much it was “making” me and realizing that I was working in my free time for Pennie’s.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#96

Post by revscat »

tambourine_man wrote: post #63
fortunateregard wrote: post #17

What is it that prevents the rest of the vim community from adopting neovim? From what I can observe, a great deal already have. But for the folks holding out, what is it that outweighs all that neovim has to offer?

From what I remember, NeoVim drops vi compatibility mode. vi is part of POSIX. That alone would be a reason to mantain Vim as a modern superset of vi.

Neovim is a superset of vim, so this argument applies to both.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#97

Post by ftaghn »

bhaak wrote: post #41
nerdponx wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're already getting to the point of being two different editors with a common lineage and legacy support for Vimscript. The Neovim people also probably don't want to re-merge with Vim, it would probably have to be Vim basically winding down development. Doesn't seem likely.

> They're already getting to the point of being two different editors with a common lineage and legacy support for Vimscript. Let's see how much traction Vimscript9 will get. From the distant view of an outsider I got strong NIH vibes from that. > it would probably have to be Vim basically winding down development. Doesn't seem likely. It depends on how much Bram was the main focus point of development and if the rem…

> Let's see how much traction Vimscript9 will get.

In practice, none. It's a wasteland. Extensions that aim to be compatible with both vim / neovim use the old vimscript, while lua has very, very significant traction in the neovim world among people who try to bring IDE like feature to vim. The amount of people willing to write extensions that only work on vim proper, which is what would happen if they used vim9script, is close to non existent.

> I would rather expect a EGCS/GCC "merger"

Or libav vs ffmpeg.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#98

Post by h11h »

fortunateregard wrote: post #17

What is it that prevents the rest of the vim community from adopting neovim? From what I can observe, a great deal already have. But for the folks holding out, what is it that outweighs all that neovim has to offer?

MacVim and gVim. I've looked at neovim and there are many GUI options (paradox of choice), some of which I've tried, but at the end of the day, I'm more comfortable with what I'm already familiar with.

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#99

Post by ritzaco »

gpvos wrote: post #68

I'm getting "Something went wrong. Please try again later." (both latest FF and Chrome). I don't think HN can slashdot Google yet, any ideas?

I get the same on firefox with ublock origin, but it works if I turn off ublock or use chrome.

on my android firefox, I can't load any google properties - it just redirects to a help page about how to clear my cache (clearing the cache doesn't help)

Re: The Future of the Vim Project

#100

Post by gorjusborg »

enriquto wrote: post #45
fortunateregard wrote: post #17

What is it that prevents the rest of the vim community from adopting neovim? From what I can observe, a great deal already have. But for the folks holding out, what is it that outweighs all that neovim has to offer?

> what is it that outweighs all that neovim has to offer? You should ask, and answer, the question in reverse. What does neovim offer me, as a regular vim user? I don't see anything particularly interesting for my usage, so I don't have any reason to change. Also, some features are missing (like gvim-gtk, that I enjoy using to edit LaTeX occasionally). Furthermore, as of today, plain vim has an aura of venerability d…

> You should ask, and answer, the question in reverse. What does neovim offer me, as a regular vim user?

Well, one of the goals of neovim was to make it easier for new people to contribute.

So, there's an obvious feature you might be overlooking: the project surviving past its creators passing.

Beyond that, async, lua, lsp and treesitter support are other things neovim brings to the table. I don't use vim much anymore, but I know that neovim incorporated them first. If vim did follow on some of those innovations, consider how long it might take for new vim maintainers to get to a point where Bram needed to be to keep up, without his guidance.

I wonder if there is a need for both vim and neovim in the future. Neovim was born out of wanting to do similar things to what the vim maintainers are considering.

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