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Temptations of an open-source Chrome extension developer (2021)

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Re: Temptations of an open-source Chrome extension developer (2021)

#201

Post by scarface_74 »

jstanley wrote: post #53
ericd wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most galling offer we saw on the mobile app side was something that would turn on the user's microphone, and listen for ads on tvs around them to track what they'd been exposed to offline. Adtech is such a thoroughly gross field.

But every time this comes up the threads are flooded with people saying it doesn't actually happen and the ad companies just work out what you're interested in by what you're browsing.

I can’t speak for Android. But exactly how does a mobile app turn on your microphone on iOS without you giving it explicit permission?

I just did a virtual visit with a doctor that used a video conferencing service that work without an app on iOS and just used Safari. I had to give the page explicit permission to use my microphone

Re: Temptations of an open-source Chrome extension developer (2021)

#202

Post by traverseda »

AlbertRosen wrote: post #197
roetlich wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That still requires the microphone to be active, right?

Yes, but it doesn't record anything. It calculates a hash locally and sends that hash to their servers, where it is then identified.

Couldn't you do the same with tv shows and ads?

Re: Temptations of an open-source Chrome extension developer (2021)

#203

Post by rarafael »

sdflhasjd wrote: post #24

And if you run a website you get constant emails like this: Hey There, I wanted to reach out and see if accepts guest post contributions or link insertion in existing posts? If so, I'd love to hear more about your guidelines and any specific topics of interest. Thank you for your time, and I'm looking forward to your response. Best Regards, These ones are definitely spammed out en-masse, my site doesn't even have a b…

I would like to keep a working tag on my website but doing so seems to attract tons of spam email that goes something like this, or otherwise offers from random web developer conglomerates offering to "better" my website (which I try to keep simple and plain). :/

Re: Temptations of an open-source Chrome extension developer (2021)

#204

Post by scarface_74 »

sublinear wrote: post #180
munk-a wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am pretty convinced that modern advertising - from the most inane and innocent to tracking users 24/7 pretty clearly falls under evil. Gone are the days of advertising trying to raise product awareness and convert purchases - that field now exists to create demand. It induces desires in the recipients that play on psychological factors like FOMO to create customers out of thin air - and that process causes we the c…

You do realize all forms of media embed advertising directly into the content going right back to the beginning, right? There's nothing modern about it. Showing you a product when you actually want to see it is the most effective way to induce demand. All your favorite shows, movies, youtube personalities, etc. still do this.

Well, seeing that:

- I use ad blockers for my browser on both mobile and PC

- pay for the ad free version of all of my streaming providers

- don’t use apps that have ads and don’t have a method to pay to get rid of them

Re: Temptations of an open-source Chrome extension developer (2021)

#205

Post by scarface_74 »

kelnos wrote: post #146
Brusco_RF wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean showing you ads for diapers because you googled "best diapers" falls under that same category and I daresay isn't evil at all

Advertising, by its very nature, is emotional manipulation with the goal of getting you to give up some of your money for something you most likely don't really need and won't improve your life all that much, if at all. To me, that's evil. Sure, there are varying degrees of this evil, but IMO even the least-objectionable advertising out there still can't be called "good". In my experience, the case where advertising…

I don’t have any ethical concerns with ads. My concern is that it ruins the experience of whatever content I’m trying to consume.

Surprisingly though, for some reason I don’t find podcast ads to be as offensive.

Re: Temptations of an open-source Chrome extension developer (2021)

#206

Post by lazyasciiart »

RHSeeger wrote: post #152
Brusco_RF wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean showing you ads for diapers because you googled "best diapers" falls under that same category and I daresay isn't evil at all

Sure, if you take the most benign examples, it doesn't sound so bad. But it's so much worse than that. Going back to 2012 for "acting on data analysis gone wrong" Target Sends Coupons to Pregnant Girl and Unawares Dad Explodes https://www.workplaceethicsadvice.com/2012/02/target-sends-c... > Pole had identified about 25 products that, when analyzed together, allowed him to assign each shopper a "pregnancy prediction"…

But that story was made up. (Not that Target does data analysis - the specific "teenage girl had sex!" anecdote).

Re: Temptations of an open-source Chrome extension developer (2021)

#207

Post by alooPotato »

cal85 wrote: post #94

FWIW, and since a few of you probably use it… I own the JSON Formatter extension [0], which I created and open-sourced 12 years ago and have maintained [1] ever since, with 2 million users today. And I solemnly swear that I will never add any code that sends any data anywhere, nor let it fall into the hands of anyone else who would. I’ve been emailed several tempting cash offers from shady people who presumably want…

This seems so weird to me. You're clearly providing value to the world, and according to my moral view, should be entitled to capturing some of that value without resorting to something shady.

I'm the founder of Streak where we directly monetize our extension (as do others like Grammarly). Have you tried directly asking your users for $ given the effort you put in?

Re: Temptations of an open-source Chrome extension developer (2021)

#208

Post by Terr_ »

myshpa wrote: post #198
kelnos wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advertising, by its very nature, is emotional manipulation with the goal of getting you to give up some of your money for something you most likely don't really need and won't improve your life all that much, if at all. To me, that's evil. Sure, there are varying degrees of this evil, but IMO even the least-objectionable advertising out there still can't be called "good". In my experience, the case where advertising…

> Advertising, by its very nature, is emotional manipulation with the goal of getting you to give up some of your money for something you most likely don't really need and won't improve your life all that much I've heard somewhere that ads are rich people screaming "give me money". (i know, i know, but i like it) > To me, that's evil. Bill Hicks on marketing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHEOGrkhDp0

> I've heard somewhere that ads are rich people screaming "give me money".

That makes me think of this Paul Graham piece on "the PR industry, lurking like a huge, quiet submarine beneath the news." [0]

[0] http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html

Re: Temptations of an open-source Chrome extension developer (2021)

#209

Post by lobocinza »

gregschlom wrote: post #62
uhtred wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so this really does happen then? Because I used to be convinced it wasn't a coincidence when I saw ads online for some niche uncommon topic I had recently talked out loud about.

This matches the audio signature of the TV ad - basically, it's like Shazam, but for TV ads. It's currently not economically possible to listen to user's conversations, transcribe them to text, and serve ads based on that. It would cost orders of magnitude more in processing power than you could get from the extra sales. This might change in the future, of course

> It's currently not economically possible to listen to user's conversations, transcribe them to text, and serve ads based on that.

Anedoctally I belive Meta does something like that because I consistently get ads on Instagram about topics I talk with a friend on Whatsapp and sometimes that is done completely via audio messages. Though I might be wrong and leaked the topics in text messages among other possibilities.

I think it can be economically feasible. They can have a model optimized for their topics which can be orders of magnitude faster than general-purpose speech recognition. Low accuracy probably wouldn't be an issue as they are able to fine tune the user topics of interest via its interactions with the ads (e.g. click rate, time spent before scroll).

Re: Temptations of an open-source Chrome extension developer (2021)

#210

Post by Aeolun »

ehsankia wrote: post #115
alyandon wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android phones that are 8 major versions out of date because the OEM won't support them probably don't have that feature.

8 major versions, that is surely less than 5% of the Android population. I'm sure the security flaws in those non-updated phones is far more serious than the lack of microphone indicator.

Ice Cream Sandwich was the best android, and nobody can tell me otherwise.
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