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Canonical’s recruitment process is long and complex

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Re: Canonical’s recruitment process is long and complex

#251
post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be a deal breaker for me. 0 respect.

I don't disagree, but on the other hand: Lloyd's used to be a London pub where merchants would hang out all day, carrying out their business as they ate. Business deals at the highest level are still routinely done over breakfast, lunch, or dinner. I think the problem, as usual, is the power imbalance: they are eating and you are not, in addition to the fact that they have the money and you don't - so it becomes a bi…

I gather the situation here was that he was multi-tasking over Zoom. But, yes, in-person meetings/conversations over a meal are not necessarily ideal but they're very commonplace in a business context and range from the very casual to more formal. (If you're at an event for business partners/customers/media/etc. they're pretty much inevitable.)

Re: Canonical’s recruitment process is long and complex

#252

> exactly how unbiased is it when every person I interviewed with was exactly my demographic? (White, female, American/western European) Please could someone explain how is this, claiming that someone's race and ethnicity defines their bias, not in itself racist?

A bias just means looking at things in a skewed way because of experience or mental conditioning. The fact is that demographics have a lot to do with bias because people from the same demographics have similar life experiences. Having someone else with a different set of experiences can help to mitigate bias by giving their perspective in the group. It is a simplistic way to determine 'tendency towards bias' by focus…

She didn't complain about the panel members being exclusively educated people (which does affect how you think). But she did complain that they are all white (which doesn't). So yeah, go ahead, dig in.

Re: Canonical’s recruitment process is long and complex

#253
post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s time for me to leave Ubuntu behind for good. I can’t support anyone who is this much of an asshole.

C'mon, it was a casual joke and no harm done. Also punching someone weaker is a simple act, but taking on someone stronger requires courage. Does it fit the somewhat quirky (but by far not unusual) interview process? Yes Is it a sign of a moral flaw? No

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Re: Canonical’s recruitment process is long and complex

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so unusual it borders on unbelievable

In my last job search I had like 1 case like this out of 30-40. Might be my numbers though

Is that a normal number of leads to have in play? I certainly spewed my fair share of resumes into the void out of school but I haven't done that since.

Re: Canonical’s recruitment process is long and complex

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (Obviously, we had NO idea what was coming.) Yeah, those drone strikes from the Obama administration were pretty bad.

Obama certainly could have done a better job at stopping them (and done better at many other things as well), but those drone strikes started under Bush2, along with the rest of the mostly disastrous "war on terror". Given we experienced our first non-peaceful transition of power, it's absurd to pretend anything else in US history compares.

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Re: Canonical’s recruitment process is long and complex

#256
I wonder if it's a reaction to some horror story they experienced.

When they first started, they didn't have all that stuff. In fact, I remember them running around and hiring basically anyone with any role in the Linux/Debian space. For a period, I had quite a few conversations at LUGs where I was told "Oh, that guy you met last week? He's the , Canonical just hired him...".

I wonder if that original hiring spree (which was fishing heavily from academia, and seemed very informal) burned them so badly that they sat down and devised a process that is the exact opposite.

Re: Canonical’s recruitment process is long and complex

#257
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my dream world we would normalize things like eating on a zoom call. People gotta eat, it’s no big deal. Maybe if they’re audibly slurping soup that’s a problem in terms of noise, but that would also be a problem during a boardroom meeting. (I once got in a lot of trouble for having a bowl of cereal while I was a silent participant in a call with a client at a fintech company, so I understand that attitudes like y…

People also gotta shit. Should I do a Zoom call while on the toilet? It's a matter of where is your attention. If you're eating you're not fully focused on the other participant you're interacting with and not being fully present for them is rude.

Isn't this a false equivalence?

I'll often eat with other people, but I wouldn't take a sh*t with them.

Re: Canonical’s recruitment process is long and complex

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But the desktop was not plain GNOME. It was polished GNOME. They were but of the jokes at the time for the color theme chosen, but it had polish that plain GNOME didn't. That is valid even today; just the choice of default font is huge. Ubuntu font vs Cantarell? They are not even in the same league.

In the early days it wasn't "polished" in any way other than the font or color choice. Which just about every distro was doing at the time (Fedora also had a clean and liked theme). But sure, here's the comparison. Ubuntu 4.10: https://www.phoronix.net/image.php?id=664&image=ubuntu_histo... Fedora Core 3: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Fedora_C...

Both looked dated back then, but Fedora Core 3 more so.

Besides a slightly less clunky selection for theming, the game changer was the installer and the willingness to chuck the Free Software purity, back when the FSF was at the height of its influence and the terrible that was setting up Linux made it inaccessible to even CompSci students, let alone the general public.

The delivery of Live CDs (I believe initially they still had a Live/Install split like other contemporary distros) was _huge_ also in places where broadband was too slow to make downloading the ISOs practical if you weren't 100% committed since before even starting, and it reached many countries, in South America it'd for sure be a huge pain to download ISOs.

All these actions to make Linux more accessible were a pretty big deal.

Re: Canonical’s recruitment process is long and complex

#259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve also willingly subjected myself to this draconian interview process once and what I gathered from one of the engineers is that Mark Ubuntu is still very much hands-on and still very much antagonizing. Take that as you will, but there’s probably not been much change since that small joke from 20 years ago.

I wouldn't call that joke antagonizing particularly, though? Or do you mean something separate?

It's certainly antagonizing to me, but maybe that's just because I work for the government and like to think that I do extraordinary work.

Re: Canonical’s recruitment process is long and complex

#260

Here is the funny part: If you somehow land a job at these companies, you will notice that recent hires (your new colleague) are not particularly good at their work but they are experts in gaming the system.

I worked at a company that sounds similarly to this company culture about 3 years ago. I got laid off, moved onto a better company. But just yesterday I ran into someone who works at my old company. We chatted for a little bit until I realized how drained I was getting just from talking to him

And I learned something about this type of culture, especially having read these comments in this thread:

Canonical sounds like a tech fraternity. Just imagine a traditional fraternity or sorority - the hazing (the boss eating food during your interview), the induction processes (hiring asking for high school background, the unnecsesary long essay prompts, unnecessary long interview process, the ghosting, etc)

They are filtering for a very specific person. Someone who is a "Yes" person to the point that they will demolish their morale values and respect on themselves. They sound like there looking for more younger & naiive, but brilliant engineers, that can be basically exploited to build great things. Asking for so much personal information about why they want to work there, there high school background, is basically from the HR perspective "Can I exploit this person if they work there, by leveraging their past against them?" It's a power play dynamic - it's easier to manipulate and gaslight someone you know more about

I have people on both sides of these spectrums.

On the applicant side, we sometimes call them 10x genius engineers that make everyone's life miserable because their code is way too complex for no particular reason. There also underpaid usually and promised promotions and payraises, but those are just empty promises to keep them on the leash. They say their coworkers code is dogshit but don't realize how many unnecessary abstractions that made in their own code. They also don't take advice from friends telling them they are being exploited either, and they usually have an addiction problem to compensate the exploitation (weed,drugs, alchohol generally speaking). They also do amazing work and build amazing things though on the other end, and usually invent very novel solutions that aren't easy for others to inherit or work on

On the business/HR/CEO side - these are the same people that never mature out of the applicant side, and continue the hazing process ritual. Usually the boss on the outside sounds very down to earth, respectable, but deep down inside he likes to have raging parties and feels like he/she missed out on the frat lifestyle growing up. It's externalized validation for them

Having a particularly confusing hiring process is actually a form of gatekeeping from keeping people that respect their boundaries from applying. It's the same level of logic as scammers who will intentionally misspell their emails to filter for people who aren't as grammatical or tech savvy - for instance, since it's easier to target more gullible or less-informed audiences

Not saying that Canonical is that case. But it definitely does sound like a tech fraternity. And the hiring process sounds like a hazing process at a fraternity. But, at the time I actually really wanted that tech fraternity life style and appreciated it for what it was. Most small / tech consulting agencies are more likely to have this cultural mindset, because working with new clientelle usually is an emotional rollercoaster. You do learn a lot in these environments - and it is stressful - and you do get treated like dogshit without you realizing it (someone outside the company has to tell you) - but you also learn to appreciate a more mature better work/life balance afterwards.

It's not terrible for a first job if your young single and have no kids, sometimes you have to learn things the hard way

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