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War Music: Homer and His Iliad

literaryreview.co.uk

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Re: War Music: Homer and His Iliad

#21

Post by nerdponx »

acyou wrote: post #18

If I understand correctly, I am writing a review of a review of a book about the Iliad. But we can only read so many books. If we had to choose, would we just read a translation of the original Iliad instead of a book about it? This is why we should be thankful for a physical bookshelf, it allows us to skip these steps and just pick up the book. I don't think we need to be too concerned with the particular translatio…

I don't think there's anything wrong with people writing down their own thoughts about great works of literature like the Iliad. What I really do appreciate are the people who review such writings-down so that I can make an informed decision about whether their thoughts are worth my time to read.

In this case, I imagine that any book analyzing the Iliad is intended for readers who have already themselves read the Iliad at least once.

Re: War Music: Homer and His Iliad

#22

Post by zwieback »

One of my coworkers went to Reed where they insisted on students reading the Lattimore translation of the Iliad, so I gave it a try as well. Once I got over the weirdness of the pseudo-Greek language I really liked it. Now it sounds like I should maybe give Logue a try, even though I've been declaring that Lattimore is the only true translation (never having read any other ones).

Re: War Music: Homer and His Iliad

#23

Post by christudor »

thecyborganizer wrote: post #15
Red_Tarsius wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree about Emily Wilson's Odissey. She translated the first line of the poem as "Tell me about a complicated man". She almost went with "Tell me about a straying husband". Neither complicated nor straying husband appear in the original text. Pope's description (The man for wisdom’s various arts renown’d...) is closer to the epithets we are taught at school (ricco d'astuzie or dal multiforme ingegno). πολύτροπος…

Wilson discusses her choices in the translation of that first line in great detail in this interview for the New York Times: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/02/magazine/the-first-woman-... You're welcome to disagree, but I find her choices fascinating, and I loved her translation. (I read the Fagles translation in school and liked that one as well.)

Wilson's Twitter threads on how she decided to translate certain words, lines, passages, etc. were absolutely brilliant, really getting to the heart of what makes translation so subjective.

That said, I disagreed with lots of her choices. Odysseus' "I could not do my exercise routine" (8.232) is a particularly egregious rendition of a line in Greek that says nothing more than "There were not sufficient supplies on the ship". There are many other examples.

Re: War Music: Homer and His Iliad

#24

Post by fsloth »

Red_Tarsius wrote: post #7
fsloth wrote: post #2

I can warmly recommend the new Iliad translation by Caroline Alexander as audiobook. Suberb! I understand the new translation by Emily Wilson (whose Odyssey was excellent) should be good as well. The new translations really bring these old poems to life, and listening to them is at least for me the best way to consume them.

I disagree about Emily Wilson's Odissey. She translated the first line of the poem as "Tell me about a complicated man". She almost went with "Tell me about a straying husband". Neither complicated nor straying husband appear in the original text. Pope's description (The man for wisdom’s various arts renown’d...) is closer to the epithets we are taught at school (ricco d'astuzie or dal multiforme ingegno). πολύτροπος…

These were my first encounters with the stories first hand, and loved them.

I suppose it’s a matter of taste.

We’ve never been through classic texts at school, I think it’s a cultural thing if they are fundamental enough to be taught at school or not.

Probably depends a lot with what expectations you come to the poem. My expectation was that it would be a struggle, but was captivated from the start.

I’ve looked some older translations in english and the ’old style’ verses have been complete turn-offs. The ’simplified’ or more dynamic translations were what made them work for me.

And it’s not the specific turns of phrazes that matter as much as the whole. The stories of both Iliad and Odyssey totally kick ass, and are amazing portals to bronze age life.

Re: War Music: Homer and His Iliad

#25

Post by Red_Tarsius »

brmgb wrote: post #19
neaden wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This complaint seems odd. First complicated is obviously not in the original text, it's in Greek. I guess what you mean is "No words I would translate as complicated are in the text" but then your complaint just becomes a tautology. Saying Pope's version from the 1700s is more like what you were taught in school is similar, it's probably the version you or your teachers read so it shaped what you were taught. Essenti…

The complaint - which I definetely share by the way - is that for all the critical acclaim it got, Emily Wilson's translation strays so far from the actual text, it is not really a translation anymore and is actually closer to being a new text inspired by the Odyssey. That's fine if that's what you are looking for but it doesn't make for a great translation. The πολύτροπος thing is a complete red herring by the way.…

[flagged]

Re: War Music: Homer and His Iliad

#26

Post by dendodge »

jstanley wrote: post #9
nerdponx wrote: post #4

> Homer had visited windy Troy on a clear day when distant Samothrace was visible … I like to think he had walked south, like Chryses, beside the shore of the booming sea This passage sounds a lot like the writing style of the ancient classics. I assume the reviewer chose it on purpose for that reason. I don't know that I need to read this book, but I appreciate that apparently it's a work of passion and enthusiasm.

Thankfully the original work is now out of copyright, and there is an English translation here: https://www.poetryintranslation.com/PITBR/Greek/Ilhome.php

> Thankfully the original work is now out of copyright

Seeing someone explicitly assert the copyright status of a text pushing 3 millennia old is somehow very amusing to me

Re: War Music: Homer and His Iliad

#27

Post by dendodge »

zwieback wrote: post #22

One of my coworkers went to Reed where they insisted on students reading the Lattimore translation of the Iliad, so I gave it a try as well. Once I got over the weirdness of the pseudo-Greek language I really liked it. Now it sounds like I should maybe give Logue a try, even though I've been declaring that Lattimore is the only true translation (never having read any other ones).

Wait for Emily Wilson (due at the end of September). Her Odyssey is easily among the great classical translations.

Re: War Music: Homer and His Iliad

#29

Post by akkartik »

A_D_E_P_T wrote: post #11

War Music is the name of an incomplete modern translation of the Iliad by Christopher Logue. It is without doubt one of the best poetic works of the past 100 years. "Achilles saw his armour in that instant And its ominous radiance flooded his heart. Bright pads with toggles crossed behind the knees, Bodice of fitted tungsten, pliable straps; His shield as round and rich as moons in spring; His sword's haft parked bet…

Who's Achilles looking at in this passage?

Re: War Music: Homer and His Iliad

#30

Post by brmgb »

Red_Tarsius wrote: post #25
brmgb wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The complaint - which I definetely share by the way - is that for all the critical acclaim it got, Emily Wilson's translation strays so far from the actual text, it is not really a translation anymore and is actually closer to being a new text inspired by the Odyssey. That's fine if that's what you are looking for but it doesn't make for a great translation. The πολύτροπος thing is a complete red herring by the way.…

[flagged]

I am not hand waving it. This line was commented ad nauseam when the book was released and is the one people who have no idea of neither what in the Greek text nor what’s in the translation like to discuss. As it’s far from being the most questionable part of the translation, I don’t see the point of centring discussion on it, especially when you consider it’s not an awful translation of the original. It’s not very close but you can find far worse later.
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