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Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

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Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#451

Post by Eddygandr »

pydry wrote: post #360
peatmoss wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me it beggars belief that companies spend so much on humans only to put them in an environment where it’s impossible to concentrate. I reckon at some point someone will figure out that the physical environment can be modified to make knowledge workers more productive, and start walloping their competition. I am on a distributed team with no in-person interaction, and I love commuting even though I don’t see anyone…

Anecdotally I think a a lot of the IT work that requires extreme focus has become commodified. That is, it's either done by some open source library or a SaaS or something. I had a lot more of the stuff that required focus at the beginning of my career. In my last few jobs it's been more about hooking together subsystems from 11 different teams/companies in six different timezones. Most bugs seem to happen because of…

If my job involved integrating 11 subsystems I’d need some pretty intense focus!

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#452

Post by Aeolun »

rayiner wrote: post #179
steveBK123 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My vaguely populist take is that the pandemic, WFH/remote and hybrid gave the mass white collar class a taste of what the C-suite has had for years.. flexibility. Sure, these guys might go into the office but they do so from their pied-a-terre / 3rd home / whatever within a 5 minute chauffeured drive. They do this while maintaining a nearby suburban/exurban estate and maybe a lake/beach/ski houses where they spend th…

> My vaguely populist take is that the pandemic, WFH/remote and hybrid gave the mass white collar class a taste of what the C-suite has had for years.. flexibility. That’s not populist at all. It’s just another example of the white collar class enjoying the benefits of technology and globalization while everyone else gets left behind: https://www.epi.org/blog/wage-inequality-continued-to-increa... . Before the pandem…

I don’t think we should feel ashamed of being able to do our work from home.

There’s no benefit to making everyone go to the office/job just because some people cannot do their jobs without that.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#453

Post by ghaff »

danaris wrote: post #113
mytailorisrich wrote: post #30

People who like WFH will never want to return to the office unless perhaps the office is a 5 minute walk from home (they may be forced to, but they won't want to). For many people the time and cost savings of avoiding a daily commute cannot be offset by a nicer office. Those who are happy to return to the office in general are those who do not like WFH and prefer more contacts and a change of scenery. A nicer office…

I'm massively in favor of WFH—but I think this is a bit of an absolutist take. I can see plenty of people who are enjoying WFH, but would be willing to return to the office if they no longer had to work in a cube farm, but could have their own private office, that they could decorate to their taste, and where they could play their own music. And, perhaps most importantly, have a door that they could keep closed so th…

>And, perhaps most importantly, have a door that they could keep closed so that if anyone wants to interrupt them, they actually have to knock first.

In my experience with offices at a couple of different companies (of much different sizes), the social convention was door open unless you were on a private call/meeting or really needed to go heads down on something. It would actually have been considered rude to knock on the door because they door would obviously not have been closed unless there was a good reason.

A lot of people seem to imagine that offices mean you shut the door and don't interact with anyone and that's never been my experience.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#454

Post by yogthos »

FredPret wrote: post #318
flandish wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This example is a stark reminder that the complaints are most often not about details but about class . The CEO was upset others were allowed to perform as if they were of the same class. It’s always class when one boils it down, imho.

Not everything is a class dynamic. “Analyst at GS hanging out in the Hamptons” doesn’t scream working class. The CEO and analyst are both upper class, just different levels of power and seniority. That CEO is just a power-tripping asshole.

The only meaningful way to look at class is by looking at class interests. On the one hand, you have the capitalist class who own significant amount of capital and use this capital to further their wealth. On the other hand, you have working class people for whom selling their labour is the primary source of their income.

These two classes have largely contradictory interests. People who own companies want to cut their costs, and therefore they want to lower wages, give lower benefits, less time off, and so on. Workers want the exact opposite of that.

People such as CEOs constitute a labour aristocracy where their interests largely align with the interests of large capitalists and they own some capital of their own.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#455

Post by screwturner68 »

surume wrote: post #220

Why not also give them a Ferrari to get to work, and a handful of diamonds to make them feel valued. I have been working with the big corps for 12 years, and this is pure fantasy. If they can save $5 a month something, they will. The idea of every worker getting their own office is laughable, even if it is admirable.

I just want to be paid well and be left the fuck alone. I've been in consulting for over 30 years and I'm used to being treated poorly. I don't need a fancy office with a view. I don't need a coffee bar or a beer fridge. I don't need ping pong or bullshit team builders. I need good benefits, higher pay and more vacation. If you can provide those things you can make me work in the basement for all I care (and yes I have worked in basements with no windows and places worse than that).

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#456

Post by TuringNYC »

cruano wrote: post #398
bko wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you pretending this analyst is the same or even should have the same affordances as the CEO? You might be shocked to find out the CEO even gets paid more! Most people come up through the ranks and you can bet the CEO was one time an analyst with a demanding boss. After decades of work he made it to boss. You see this everywhere where you move up the ranks and things get better. That's the apprentice deal for…

Why are you pretending like flexibility is something you cannot give freely ? That's like saying all junior-level employees MUST carry a book on top of their heads all the time, and only C-Level executives get to skip that. If you give someone flexibility, you are not taking anything away from other people, so not giving it is only an unnecessary punishment for junior level employees.

>> Why are you pretending like flexibility is something you cannot give freely ?

Many of these things are about rite of passage, and people who have gone thru the rites want others to not skip.

It can also be about a power-dynamic, where flexibility isnt given because imposed inflexibility is a power lever.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#457

Post by the_gipsy »

pydry wrote: post #337
rqtwteye wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" I'd rather take a 50% paycut than go back to the office." People should stop saying this. Otherwise it will soon be the standard to take a serious paycut for WFH. .

I've seen some employers try to get people to take a 50% paycut for WFH and then STILL bait and switch them back into the office.

That's the thing, if the employer tries to bargain on WFH then they just won't stop on an agreement but keep pushing.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#458

Post by steveBK123 »

ghaff wrote: post #340
steveBK123 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My vaguely populist take is that the pandemic, WFH/remote and hybrid gave the mass white collar class a taste of what the C-suite has had for years.. flexibility. Sure, these guys might go into the office but they do so from their pied-a-terre / 3rd home / whatever within a 5 minute chauffeured drive. They do this while maintaining a nearby suburban/exurban estate and maybe a lake/beach/ski houses where they spend th…

In my experience, VP+ level also maybe spend half the year on the road and are commonly on 10pm calls with e.g. customers and general managers in Asia. Certainly they're usually well-compensated but they're not spending their days by the swimming pool in their villa either. I suspect that a lot of people reading this would hate the job even if they could do it well.

Sure. I write this as someone who works 12-14hrs/day and sporadically over the weekend, but I do it all remote from home & am well compensated so I am happy with the trade.

However - I think some of the CEO class defenders shouldn't delude themselves as to why these people have 5 homes. It is not because they take a paltry 15 days paid time off per year in which they use those homes. They have the flexibility to dictate their schedule, and they use that flexibility to be where they want, when they want.

At one fund I worked they Dual-HQd NYC & Miami (plus they all keep a Greenwich footprint) so that some of the execs could sleep outside NY State for statutory 183 days/year and avoid NYS/NYC 10-15% income tax on high earners. Plus they maintained their country homes outside the city.

If you make $5M/year, the 2nd/3rd/4th home start to pay for themselves with those economics.

Sleep in Greenwich Friday to Tuesday. Monday work from CT office. Blade to midtown office Tuesday AM. Sleep in your condo Tuesday/Wednesday and then back to Greenwich Thursday night to work remote Friday. Next thing you know you're in Manhattan for a paltry 2 nights/week, maybe not even every week if you go do a Miami 2 weeks/month, or for majority of winter, etc.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#459

Post by jacobsenscott »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #30

People who like WFH will never want to return to the office unless perhaps the office is a 5 minute walk from home (they may be forced to, but they won't want to). For many people the time and cost savings of avoiding a daily commute cannot be offset by a nicer office. Those who are happy to return to the office in general are those who do not like WFH and prefer more contacts and a change of scenery. A nicer office…

I'm all for work from home, and have doing it for over 10 years, but we shouldn't ignore the cost of donating an entire room of your house to your employer (two in my case since my wife also wfh). Certainly this should factor into your total comp calculation as -(rent amount in your area). Likely it is more than you would spend on the commute. Employers are well aware they are colonizing your private space for free. You are also cleaning /stocking/ maintaining this area for them for free. They are laughing all the way to the bank.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#460

Post by TuringNYC »

bko wrote: post #439
cruano wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you pretending like flexibility is something you cannot give freely ? That's like saying all junior-level employees MUST carry a book on top of their heads all the time, and only C-Level executives get to skip that. If you give someone flexibility, you are not taking anything away from other people, so not giving it is only an unnecessary punishment for junior level employees.

You're assuming that someone working from the Hamptons is as productive as working from a desk in the office or his own home. I highly doubt this is true and especially so for young junior employees. After you've been there a while, learned more and are more effective at your job, you're more likely to get the benefit of the doubt but even that has limits. Why are we pretending like this is all weird? New or junior e…

>> You're assuming that someone working from the Hamptons is as productive as working from a desk in the office or his own home. I highly doubt this is true and especially so for young junior employees.

I've had co-workers in these situations for a long time. In theory there is no difference. But then...

- suddenly you can barely hear someone on a conference call because they are on a 4G-tether on a beach,

- or because there are tons of bar sounds in the background on a call

- or you have a production issue but cant get the person to screen-share because they are on low-bandwidth

I even had individuals who would block their entire calendar on WFH days and only take meetings on in-office days.

The problem is with those who abuse privileges, not with those who are honest.

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