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Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

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Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#331

Post by screwturner68 »

Roark66 wrote: post #283
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd do it because I think it's better to have separate work / life areas; right now my WFH spot is also my PC gaming spot and the bedroom and the place where laundry dries, and I wouldn't mind more distance between work, leisure and private life. That said, five minutes means one could come home for lunch. But anyway, five minute walk to work is highly unlikely; a lot of people (most? citation needed?) have a commute…

>I'd do it because I think it's better to have separate work / life areas; right now my WFH spot is also my PC gaming spot and the bedroom and the place where laundry dries, and I wouldn't mind more distance between work, leisure and private life. Long time ago I used to rent a room in a shared house 5 min walk from work. My housemates were all cool people, but working on a laptop sitting next to the bed I slept in e…

There was a study about that and there was a direct correlational between the size of you home and your desire to return to the office, people with small apartments enjoyed the office much more than those with larger houses. I'd also guess that the people with larger homes live father away from work than people with smaller homes so a longer commute comes into play.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#332

Post by wing-_-nuts »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #134
_fizz_buzz_ wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of people on here have not been through a real recession. Not saying that everybody will go back to working in an office, but thinking one can simply demand anything only works when employment is high. During a recession, it is either social assistance or one takes the job that is available.

I think it comes from being a software engineer in US the last 10, and especially the last 5 years, is probably the greatest working conditions of any worker ever in human history. There are a large number of people, namely on HN, that have never known anything other than $120K+ compensation, constant stream of offers for changing jobs, all while working from their home and doing about 4 hours of real work a day. I d…

>a reversion to the mean is going to leave these people obliterated.

Not if they 'made hay while the sun shines' and are now financially independent

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#333

Post by quectophoton »

jwells89 wrote: post #128
1970-01-01 wrote: post #3

At home, the benefits are extreme. Full office, private bath, private bed, private kitchen, garaged parking, asset security, and a 30 second commute. The next wave of office workers will want it better than this, or it simply won't work.

Also, schedule flexibility. If I hit a point where my brain is a smoldering pile of ash I can get up and go do chores or get some sun by checking the mail or something, instead of sitting at my desk staring at my screen praying to the gods of productivity that my brain will start functioning again.

This also means that choosing to stay a bit late[1] because you're working on a hard problem becomes an easier choice, because you know you can stop any time and be on your bed in under 15 seconds, no bus no car no bike no commute.

[1]: If your employer doesn't like if you take a longer lunch break or something to get this time back, then it's time to start looking for a different one.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#334

Post by brmgb »

J_Shelby_J wrote: post #267
Workaccount2 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it comes from being a software engineer in US the last 10, and especially the last 5 years, is probably the greatest working conditions of any worker ever in human history. There are a large number of people, namely on HN, that have never known anything other than $120K+ compensation, constant stream of offers for changing jobs, all while working from their home and doing about 4 hours of real work a day. I d…

Four hours of knowledge work a day is actually a lot. The average corporate worker probably does far less. Meetings, small talk, answering emails, etc. feel like work, but most of the time it isn’t. Four hours of focused knowledge work can produce exponential more value that four hours of meetings. The thing is, this has always been the case for the white collar world. Lawyers, executives, etc. The real change is tha…

> Four hours of knowledge work a day is actually a lot. The average corporate worker probably does far less. Meetings, small talk, answering emails, etc. feel like work, but most of the time it isn’t. Four hours of focused knowledge work can produce exponential more value that four hours of meetings.

No idea if I should be rolling on the floor laughing or extremely saddened reading that. I might advice taking a reality check before spurring this kind of non sense in public if you want to avoid sounding both entitled and utterly disconnected.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#335

Post by steveBK123 »

dustincoates wrote: post #319
steveBK123 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My favorite story on this thread is that during the hybrid period, GS CEO threw a fit when out in the Hamptons because some analyst (fairly junior role almost at the bottom) had the balls to go introduce themselves during a workday lunch at a restaurant. He couldn't articulate a specific, valid complaint like "I was out at a client lunch and they were goofing off" or "I was on a vacation day while they were supposed…

Because I was curious, here's what I found on the Goldman CEO story: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2021-03-15/goldma...

To put some numbers on it "Associate" is a $150-$250K TC role vs DJ CEO making $25M.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#336

Post by lotsofpulp »

adolph wrote: post #300
lotsofpulp wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I predict automation/outsourcing will keep whittling away the need for work from home computer based jobs. The labor demand will be for the in person jobs that require physical labor.

Predicting reduced need for labor due to "automation" has been a losing bet since the Luddites. Do the tasks change? Yes. Is more and different work enabled? Yes. Likewise "outsourcing" could result in a net increase of WFH given that contracting companies already support it.

I specified reduced need for a certain type of labor.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#337

Post by pydry »

rqtwteye wrote: post #295
Roark66 wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My vaguely populist take is that the pandemic, WFH/remote and hybrid gave the mass white collar class a taste of what the C-suite has had for years.. flexibility. Exactly. I've been working 100% from home since 2017 (3 years before covid). I'd rather take a 50% paycut than go back to the office. Don't get me wrong. I did enjoy my life when I lived 15 min walk /5 min on a bike, from my job in a city. Before I got tha…

" I'd rather take a 50% paycut than go back to the office." People should stop saying this. Otherwise it will soon be the standard to take a serious paycut for WFH. .

I've seen some employers try to get people to take a 50% paycut for WFH and then STILL bait and switch them back into the office.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#338

Post by gitfan86 »

steveBK123 wrote: post #238
flandish wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This example is a stark reminder that the complaints are most often not about details but about class . The CEO was upset others were allowed to perform as if they were of the same class. It’s always class when one boils it down, imho.

Precisely. He couldn't put it into words because the words wouldn't have looked good. But the obvious complaint was what are these slobs doing in my summer resort town, dining in the same establishment as me!! Rather than stuck in downtown Manhattan in the August heat. Or - the least they could do is go to Coney Island / Jones Beach / Jersey Shore or something eating some hotdogs.

I have not run into this attitude in tech from executives. Finance is much more of a heiracy culture I guess.

I have run into this at a peer level though. I've negotiated WFH and extra vacation and have learned to keep it in the down low. They get mad at me, but I'm not the one that is their boss and I couldn't care less if they WFH.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#339

Post by marcosdumay »

hangonhn wrote: post #250
mytailorisrich wrote: post #30

People who like WFH will never want to return to the office unless perhaps the office is a 5 minute walk from home (they may be forced to, but they won't want to). For many people the time and cost savings of avoiding a daily commute cannot be offset by a nicer office. Those who are happy to return to the office in general are those who do not like WFH and prefer more contacts and a change of scenery. A nicer office…

> People who like WFH will never want to return to the office unless perhaps the office is a 5 minute walk from home At my current job, there's something ironic about that. The people who never come back to the office despite being allowed to are also the people who live the closest to the office. (We have a big office that allows people to come back but is totally optional. Hotel desks for the entire office basicall…

A lot of people at my workplace use the office as a second "base" where they can settle for the day and is close to a lot of things.

Since I live close to it, I never even though about doing this. And of course, the people that live the furthest away get the most value out of it. So, yeah, it's probably a very strong correlation, and not only for negative reasons.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#340

Post by ghaff »

steveBK123 wrote: post #69
mytailorisrich wrote: post #30

People who like WFH will never want to return to the office unless perhaps the office is a 5 minute walk from home (they may be forced to, but they won't want to). For many people the time and cost savings of avoiding a daily commute cannot be offset by a nicer office. Those who are happy to return to the office in general are those who do not like WFH and prefer more contacts and a change of scenery. A nicer office…

My vaguely populist take is that the pandemic, WFH/remote and hybrid gave the mass white collar class a taste of what the C-suite has had for years.. flexibility. Sure, these guys might go into the office but they do so from their pied-a-terre / 3rd home / whatever within a 5 minute chauffeured drive. They do this while maintaining a nearby suburban/exurban estate and maybe a lake/beach/ski houses where they spend th…

In my experience, VP+ level also maybe spend half the year on the road and are commonly on 10pm calls with e.g. customers and general managers in Asia. Certainly they're usually well-compensated but they're not spending their days by the swimming pool in their villa either. I suspect that a lot of people reading this would hate the job even if they could do it well.
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