Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office • Hacker News Board

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#201

Post by peatmoss » Wed, Aug 09, 2023, 3:05 PM UTC

AvAn12 wrote: post #9

Joel Spolesky has made this very point many times in the past: "Private offices with doors that close were absolutely required and not open to negotiation." I work on a Data Sci team that moved to an open floor plan in 2018. What happened? Anyone who needed to work intensively on a project would work from home instead of in the office.

To me it beggars belief that companies spend so much on humans only to put them in an environment where it’s impossible to concentrate. I reckon at some point someone will figure out that the physical environment can be modified to make knowledge workers more productive, and start walloping their competition.

I am on a distributed team with no in-person interaction, and I love commuting even though I don’t see anyone I work with. But, I hate the physical space.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#202

Post by ibejoeb » Wed, Aug 09, 2023, 3:05 PM UTC

mytailorisrich wrote: post #30

People who like WFH will never want to return to the office unless perhaps the office is a 5 minute walk from home (they may be forced to, but they won't want to). For many people the time and cost savings of avoiding a daily commute cannot be offset by a nicer office. Those who are happy to return to the office in general are those who do not like WFH and prefer more contacts and a change of scenery. A nicer office…

Many people with families, or even just DINKS, would opt for private offices. Unless you've got a giant home with private space, working at the same time and while your home life goes on around you is pretty bad.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#203

Post by thomasfromcdnjs » Wed, Aug 09, 2023, 3:05 PM UTC

NetOpWibby wrote: post #138

For the first time in my life, I have space and energy to work on my fitness goals. I wouldn't be able to do that if I had to go into the office. Ironically, I moved to California because I was told we'd be working onsite...three years later and I _still_ don't have a badge because the back to office mandate never came. I use my lunch hour to workout because I can just eat at my desk. I wish I could afford a bigger h…

I've always been fit but when I was in the office, I understood why a lot of people weren't. Work + Commute + Daily exercise is a HUGE chunk of time.

With remote, I simply exercise _during_ work with my home equipment, it's fantastic.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#204

Post by lotsofpulp » Wed, Aug 09, 2023, 3:06 PM UTC

Veliladon wrote: post #72

_fizz_buzz_ wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think a lot of people on here have not been through a real recession. Not saying that everybody will go back to working in an office, but thinking one can simply demand anything only works when employment is high. During a recession, it is either social assistance or one takes the job that is available.

There is no excess labor left in the system. We just went through a pandemic where, in the US, 2.4 million people just vanished from the labor force. If there is a recession it'll be a fully employed recession where the fed has to keep rates high because workers are fully employed and driving up wages while capital is crying uncle for lost profits and cheap money again.

I predict automation/outsourcing will keep whittling away the need for work from home computer based jobs. The labor demand will be for the in person jobs that require physical labor.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#205

Post by bratgpttamer » Wed, Aug 09, 2023, 3:06 PM UTC

toddmorey wrote: post #75

Years ago I worked for a company in a huge windowless, wall-less open plan building that was supposed to be fun because they put a slide in it. You had to have headphones on to think. Looking back it seems so surreal like thinking about when people used to smoke on airplanes. I can’t imagine ever going back to that.

Hah, I was scrolling through some commercial listings this morning and found a barren industrial warehouse (with windows!) that I thought would be perfect for the eternal tormenting of information workers under the guise of a Fun, Hip Place To Work.

No carpets, no canvas on the walls, nothing - just a new paint job, a couple of kegs, some ping-pong tables, and maybe a cornhole setup for maximum tailgating vibes.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#206

Post by caskstrength » Wed, Aug 09, 2023, 3:06 PM UTC

amf12 wrote: post #34

harshaw wrote: post #10

I think its fair to say that RTO is not about data, or studies, or about anything really. Leaders across all industries have decided people are coming back. Perhaps there is a secret cabal of commercial office space lenders who are putting pressure as share holders, or some other conspiracy theory. But it's happening - no one can do anything about it (except vote with your feet), and no one is going to get better acc…

> I think its fair to say that RTO is not about data, What data do you have to support this, other than a personal anecdote?

> What data do you have to support this, other than a personal anecdote?

If RTO proponents had any hard data, wouldn't they shared it by now? It is _they_ who are making the claim that office work is more productive, so it is on them to _prove_ it. We are being fed some fables about "spontaneous interactions at water cooler" and other such bullshit instead.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#207

Post by willcipriano » Wed, Aug 09, 2023, 3:06 PM UTC

maverick2007 wrote: post #19

SnowProblem wrote: post #12

What companies today give software engineers offices? Microsoft's used to be fantastic in 00s and early 10s but they also were moving to open spaces when I left so not sure the state today.

Epic Systems did as of 5 years ago

Epic systems basically has a company town set up. I don't think you ever really leave work when you work for epic.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#208

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 09, 2023, 3:06 PM UTC

AvAn12 wrote: post #9

Joel Spolesky has made this very point many times in the past: "Private offices with doors that close were absolutely required and not open to negotiation." I work on a Data Sci team that moved to an open floor plan in 2018. What happened? Anyone who needed to work intensively on a project would work from home instead of in the office.

[deleted]

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#209

Post by squirrel6 » Wed, Aug 09, 2023, 3:07 PM UTC

Digital meetings are never going away at this point so this is a great point. Also, the most meaningful interactions I had early in my career were in small offices with 1 or 2 colleagues. If offices can’t be made available for everyone, they should be available to people above a certain level in the org.

There are new cubicle designs with lower walls that still foster interaction but allow for focus time.

Hotdesking is so bad for morale, especially for people who have dedicated so many years of their life to their employer.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#210

Post by acdha » Wed, Aug 09, 2023, 3:07 PM UTC

mytailorisrich wrote: post #30

People who like WFH will never want to return to the office unless perhaps the office is a 5 minute walk from home (they may be forced to, but they won't want to). For many people the time and cost savings of avoiding a daily commute cannot be offset by a nicer office. Those who are happy to return to the office in general are those who do not like WFH and prefer more contacts and a change of scenery. A nicer office…

For me, the commute is a short bike or train ride. It’s actually enjoyable but I still don’t want to go into the office for exactly the reason given: cubicles suck. The distraction, poor lighting, noise, etc. are a poor fit for any sort of work which isn’t constantly talking to everyone in the same room.

I think the sweet spot is at most 2-3 people in a space. That could work well collaboratively if they do the same thing but not if there are going to be lots of conflicting meetings.