Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

washingtonpost.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 838 posts

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#191

Post by 300bps »

3.5% unemployment rate = nothing will get people back into office if they don't want to be in the office.

This all flips around at some point though. Maybe 10% unemployment?

For me, I'm looking incredulously at people making decisions on where to live assuming that "work from home" is locked in forever. I know someone who is in the process of settling on a house in the middle of nowhere working for a large publicly traded company remotely. The company just posted their first quarterly loss in forever.

If she ends up losing that job, she'll be 100% dependent on being able to find another remote position or be forced to sell her house.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#192

Post by jonhohle »

captainbland wrote: post #156
btbuildem wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't. The push for open-plan spaces was motivated by cost-cutting. Layouts with many closed offices would cost far more to build, and take up more square footage to host the same number of employees. At a time where savvy businesses have dropped their commercial leases / gone full remote, and the more conservative / less accepting of change ones are left holding the bag, I would not expect anyone to make big inve…

To be honest I think with hybrid, open offices make a lot of sense. Realistically you want to be able to hot desk because that's where the cost savings are made in a hybrid situation. You sort of fractional-reserve your office space. Of course it works only so long as nobody calls an in-person all hands. The in-office days are social collaboration days so it doesn't make sense to keep people in separate boxes for the…

We had “hotelling” at Accenture in the early 2000’s and I hated it. It made sense their, because at any moment you could be called to an out of town assignment, but the lack of workspace consistency and the feeling of coming into the most generic workspace available was really draining).

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#193

Post by skramzy »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #30

People who like WFH will never want to return to the office unless perhaps the office is a 5 minute walk from home (they may be forced to, but they won't want to). For many people the time and cost savings of avoiding a daily commute cannot be offset by a nicer office. Those who are happy to return to the office in general are those who do not like WFH and prefer more contacts and a change of scenery. A nicer office…

My office is across the street. I can see it from my window and still never go in.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#194

Post by feyman_r »

I am an outlier and minority here - WFH should have worked for me, but I realized the lack of control over snacking when at home, and a lack of discipline to take breaks between meetings to walk and be active. I gained 20 lbs over two years.

When I’m in the office, both these problems don’t exist; in fact 1:1s become ‘walking 1:1s’. I feel more healthier; the commute back allows me to disconnect from work and decline meetings.

This is not to say working from the office is better for everyone. I wish I had the discipline to be better at WFH.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#195

Post by heisnotanalien »

I love working from home as much as everyone else here (seemingly) but I don't think people are fully appreciating how damaging not talking to people in meat space is likely to be long-term. We are embodied/energetic creatures and that energy is not exchanging the same way online (sorry if that sounds woo but it's true!). More so for the younger people, let's not forgot some of whom have never worked with people much in person.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#196

Post by zer8k »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #16
1970-01-01 wrote: post #3

At home, the benefits are extreme. Full office, private bath, private bed, private kitchen, garaged parking, asset security, and a 30 second commute. The next wave of office workers will want it better than this, or it simply won't work.

The idea that employers need to give you everything you want is strange. They give you the least they can possibly get away with. Sure - some small subset of employers competing for the best employees will do this. But the average employer? I'm skeptical.

> The idea that employers need to give you everything you want is strange.

The working class, low class, and middle class are all tax cattle. We have to take ostensibly dangerous commutes on highways with people too tired/too rushed/too busy to care. We have to eat inside of a certain timeframe, respond chipper no matter the circumstances, and when they're done with us they just let us go in a "right-sizing". We are subject to panopticon levels of surveillance with open offices, late nights because you don't want to appear to be the guy leaving early, etc. If you're lucky you get a few dozen hours a week with your family, maybe have some hobbies.

Cattle, imo, actually have it better because at least Farmer John drives them to work and they eat for free.

The Cxx's are always so chipper about coming into the office because they make, on average, 20x more than than the engineers doing actual work, and they can work from home/beach/yacht as they please.

Employers would be wise to treat employees with what they want. WFH is a net savings for them unless they're locked into 20 year leases. Many companies happen to get their lease through their VCs so it explains entirely why they are so keen on coming back to office. Employees will just leave to companies still offering remote. The problem for the employers who refuse to change? In a "fully" employed recession wages will not match the environment. If they cannot make up for lost wages with benefits like remote, paid healthcare, 401k match, etc they will die because without tax cattle, they are nothing.

This was simply the cattle waking up and realizing that they are the ones with the actual power. Any power a CEO claims to have is simply voodoo. The issue is employees still don't see this. Even without a union having enough people just walk out because the company doesnt respect them will crush the company. Rightly so.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#197

Post by sh1mmer »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #30

People who like WFH will never want to return to the office unless perhaps the office is a 5 minute walk from home (they may be forced to, but they won't want to). For many people the time and cost savings of avoiding a daily commute cannot be offset by a nicer office. Those who are happy to return to the office in general are those who do not like WFH and prefer more contacts and a change of scenery. A nicer office…

I miss the commute that was my ~20m morning bike ride (now I have to motivate myself). I don’t really miss the commute that was 20m on transit but it was ok. I really don’t miss the commute that was 45-60m+ in traffic (even the times I was on a work shuttle).

I could do an office again though if it weren’t too far from home. Working from home can be strangely lonely, maybe I should just be better about organizing co-working with friends virtually or in person.

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#198

Post by steveBK123 »

pc86 wrote: post #186
steveBK123 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My vaguely populist take is that the pandemic, WFH/remote and hybrid gave the mass white collar class a taste of what the C-suite has had for years.. flexibility. Sure, these guys might go into the office but they do so from their pied-a-terre / 3rd home / whatever within a 5 minute chauffeured drive. They do this while maintaining a nearby suburban/exurban estate and maybe a lake/beach/ski houses where they spend th…

I think the boiled frog is a perfect analogy. I grew up always assuming there would be a long commute. I couldn't afford to move out of my parents house for almost a year out of school in my first job (2008 making less than $30k/yr) so I spent 7 or 8 months driving an hour each way. I'm too young to remember but my dad spent the first few years of my life and several before that commuting 2 hours one way. Spending at…

Yes, also the typical career cycle in HCOL areas is you are 22 and live in a dumpy apartment with roommates but close to work. You maybe couple up with someone by 30 and get a nicer place a bit further, but still within a 20-40min transit commute. Finally you maybe decide to start a family by 40, and move out to somewhere 40-60min commute, if not further.

Each step is just a small increment worse. But when you go from remote back to the worst level, it's jarring.

Objectively, transit has also gotten worse in some cities (NYC, DC) since COVID and still not recovered. So we are also returning to something worse than where we left it!

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#199

Post by 331c8c71 »

kjkjadksj wrote: post #83
mytailorisrich wrote: post #30

People who like WFH will never want to return to the office unless perhaps the office is a 5 minute walk from home (they may be forced to, but they won't want to). For many people the time and cost savings of avoiding a daily commute cannot be offset by a nicer office. Those who are happy to return to the office in general are those who do not like WFH and prefer more contacts and a change of scenery. A nicer office…

See if I lived five minutes walk from work, I’d want to be in the office even less. Why sit there between meetings if I am five minutes from my home? Why bag a lunch when my kitchen is down the block? I’d probably show face at the obligate meetings then just go home for the day if I could.

I would work almost exclusively from the office in this scenario and even keep my work belongings there (if possible).

It's much easier for some to have a complete separation of work and home spaces. Also a change of scenery in the morning and getting to move a bit before starting to work is nice.

If you work 5 mins from your home you can just walk there for lunch. No need to bag a lunch, no?

Re: Want employees to return to the office? Then give each one an office

#200

Post by CoastalCoder »

dack wrote: post #118
shortrounddev2 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to live 5mins from work. The office catered lunch every day, but I still went home every day to eat lunch with my wife instead. Hated being at that place

even if you like the place, hard to beat lunch with the wife

I don't mean this as cras, but even better is "lunch" with the wife.

I.e., when the two of you are finally home alone and awake, because school is in session.

I suspect for some marriages, WFH has been a real blessing.

Post reply on HN