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UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

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Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#71
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what people who have underpayed workers normally say. A pay upgrade for employees firsts lowers the income of the company and that's bad for owners and investitors, not the users. Users get higher prices way later in that game.

UPS will have to increase shipping costs which directly hurts the poor with their Amazon purchases.

We have different definitions of poor. I’ve been what I’d call poor, and when I was in that state there wasn’t any room in my budget for things purchased on Amazon. Wal*Mart with a ride from a friend was all I had.

Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#72

Good. These people have one of the most difficult and essential jobs out there. Bezo became one of the richest people in the world because these drivers were some of those who reliably delivered the last mile of Amazon's business.

In what way is the job of a UPS driver difficult and essential?

Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#73
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great but why are you forcing others to subsidize these jobs too, especially the poor?

nobody's forcing anyone to do anything. It's just the free market, right?

There's nothing free about this.

Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#74

Good. These people have one of the most difficult and essential jobs out there. Bezo became one of the richest people in the world because these drivers were some of those who reliably delivered the last mile of Amazon's business.

In what way is the job of a UPS driver difficult and essential?

Have you ever loaded or unloaded a truck? It's the definition of difficult.

Do you have things shipped to your house? I think most people would consider that essential in 2023.

Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#75
post #4

that's more what I'm payed as a senior dev ... maybe I should change career

Do you want back pain and constant work for 10 hours? I don’t. And I did make way more. But keep in mind that physical labor jobs are continuous work and hard on the body. As a swe I could work an hour, go for a walk to think, work another 2 hours, play ping pong with the PM while we discuss something, and enjoy multiples in RSUs. Just saying.

Most of the time drivers are.. driving. And the drivers have hand carts for larger or heavier items (which still have significant limits), and most packages are the size of a hard cover book. So, really, almost all of the job is driving with occasional chances to stretch your legs and deliver a small package. And the job is average of about 43 hours a week (they have very exact data on this), which is probably less than you put in and definitely not 10 hours/day.

Sounds like you have a pretty nice SWE job, perhaps in the valley? But your experience is not typical.

Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#76
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are wrong. UPS does not make anything close to $75 B per year in profit.

Looks like they made $100B in revenue and $74B profit in 2022. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/UPS/ups/revenue UPS annual revenue for 2022 was $100.338B, a 3.14% increase from 2021. UPS annual revenue for 2021 was $97.287B, a 14.96% increase from 2020. UPS annual revenue for 2020 was $84.628B, a 14.22% increase from 2019. UPS annual gross profit for 2022 was $74.152B, a 3.08% increase from 2021. UPS annual…

You need to look at net profit not gross which is much smaller. The net profit margin 10%.

Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#77
post #4

that's more what I'm payed as a senior dev ... maybe I should change career

I'm not sure I can put a dollar cost on the theoretical toll that a package delivery job puts on your body versus being a dev.

Most devs are very sedentary. That puts an enormous toll on the body. Which is worse? I don't know, but neither is great.

Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#78
post #4

that's more what I'm payed as a senior dev ... maybe I should change career

A lot of numbers are being thrown around in the article. $170,000 a year and Drivers discussing their hourly pay of $40 or more routinely make national headlines. and Prior to the new deal, the company said drivers earned about $95,000 in pay annually on average or about $42 an hour, and another $50,000 in benefits and raised starting pay for part-time staff to $21 an hour and the new contract would provide a pay boost of $2.50 an hour this year and $7.50 an hour over the five years of the deal.

The $170k number comes from the employer, and the article expresses no curiosity about which end of the confidence interval at the end of 5 years that benefits fall on. Future cost-of-labor numbers from the employer may incorporate burden and liability forecasts as well, as those are considered to be a portion of labor expense when discussing compensation. The article also seems to be doing its own math to arrive at hourly rates, naively assuming that an entire amount is paid compensation and doesn't include benefits or overtime.

The base rate being increased from (apparently?) $18.50 to $21 is a red flag that should have us asking critical questions. Delivery driving is destructive to one's body and dangerous. $18.50/hour is a ruinous rate for work that's not unlikely to change the usefulness of your body.

Re: UPS driver pay and benefits deal in US to be worth $170k a year, firm says

#79
post #5

I will pay more for items to be shipped to me and wait longer for them to arrive if it means the UPS drivers are treated fairly.

Wow, that's incredibly generous of you. If I start listing out thousands of other professions that are not well paid, do you promise to loudly state your intention of generosity on an internet comment? It's the least you could do, after all.
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