161–170 of 192 posts
Exciting tech, looking forward to see it running on wgpu! There is an issue about WebGPU although I don’t notice references to the native version of it. https://github.com/huggingface/candle/issues/344
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> Because any programming language can be a pain in production environments. Except one with memory safety and static builds. Like Rust can offer.
I wish my bugs were mostly preventable via static typing and memory safety checks. For most ML and data work algorithm design and logic errors are the primary source of bugs. Type errors are usually the trivial things you fix in minutes.
The grandparent said "Python is a pain in the ass in production environments".
And the parent said: "any programming language can be a pain in production environments".
My point was how Rust is better for backend services for fewer problems in production, as it wont have memory bugs (which have long plagued backend services and have resulted in many exploits), and it also offers static builds (so deployment can be dead easy, and wont be having the kind of environment issues some languages have).
I understood the grandparent to mean something about how Python has issues with dependencies, and isolation, and paths, and updates, and so on. And the parent to mean that you can have deployment issues with any language.
And to obviously neither to refer to design and logic errors, since the former wouldn't be singling out Python, and the latter would be saying a tautology. And neither would make sense to talk about those being an issue in production specifically.
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It may just be for different people, not sure. I'm a Rust fanatic, i use it for everything, including web dev. We even have a shop full of similar Rust folks. Personally it's my most productive language, and this is after years in Python, NodeJS, and ~5 years Go. Which isn't to attempt to invalidate your experience. But i do think: > writing Rust is a slog where you have to jump through hoops and spend a lot more tim…
Rust for web dev instead of Go? I want to believe. What’s the killer app?
It's cool that this is coming from huggingface and it isn't just someone's hobby project. Rust is in a weird place where people are trying to push it in a bunch of places where it doesn't belong naturally (web dev, data science) but then when you complain that it's difficult to use you get told that you're using the wrong language for your use case... I really want to like Rust - I've read the Rust book, done the Rus…
Rust needs a prototyping/scripting/application language on top of it, with 80% of the speed and 99% of the safety, with automatic memory management (reference counting or GC) and at least one idiomatic way of doing concurrency that disallows sharing mutable state. A language that is tailor-made for building applications quickly on top of the Rust ecosystem, with a build tool that gracefully handles mixed projects if…
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It may just be for different people, not sure. I'm a Rust fanatic, i use it for everything, including web dev. We even have a shop full of similar Rust folks. Personally it's my most productive language, and this is after years in Python, NodeJS, and ~5 years Go. Which isn't to attempt to invalidate your experience. But i do think: > writing Rust is a slog where you have to jump through hoops and spend a lot more tim…
So if you take a Python program and you add the mental effort of having to deal with static types, lifetimes, the borrow checker and performance considerations, and this added mental effort actually allows you to write the program faster? That is incredible. It's like being able to carve- and install a door from a slab of wood faster than installing a prefabricated door.
So the claim doesn’t sound so crazy to me. For me at least, types remove mental overhead, they don’t add to it. I can’t count the times I’ve been reading through untyped (or inaccurately typed) python code and have had to jump a dozen levels deep just trying to figure out if a function can or cannot return null.
It's cool that this is coming from huggingface and it isn't just someone's hobby project. Rust is in a weird place where people are trying to push it in a bunch of places where it doesn't belong naturally (web dev, data science) but then when you complain that it's difficult to use you get told that you're using the wrong language for your use case... I really want to like Rust - I've read the Rust book, done the Rus…
A similar situation here for me. Rust might be a modern Ada for a particular use case(system programming), I was puzzled why stackoverflow ranked it as 'the most loved' language for years. For each language related post at HN, you will always see rust lover's posts there saying "I wish it's in rust", or "there is a rust version", or "rust is even better". The reality does not match up with the enthusiasm for me thoug…
That has been my experience as well. Rust and the borrow checker get too much in my way. If I want a high level language I will use Python but if I want control all the way down to the hardware C++ is where I go. Plus, it /feels/ that ISO C++ has significantly picked up on momentum and is seeing more investments than Rust.
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Pytorch has multiple production paths for deployment models without the python interpreter already, like torchscript and libtorch, or more annoying paths like onnx export and onnx runtime. So there is no need to have rust to solve this problem.
Those are great technologies for making the model inference independent of Python. However, there's always a good deal of pre and post processing, or other business logic, that needs to go around model inference. This sort of thing needs to be done in a general programming language. It's in these situations where Python is often used (because the supporting model code is often written by the same person, and that cod…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It may just be for different people, not sure. I'm a Rust fanatic, i use it for everything, including web dev. We even have a shop full of similar Rust folks. Personally it's my most productive language, and this is after years in Python, NodeJS, and ~5 years Go. Which isn't to attempt to invalidate your experience. But i do think: > writing Rust is a slog where you have to jump through hoops and spend a lot more tim…
So if you take a Python program and you add the mental effort of having to deal with static types, lifetimes, the borrow checker and performance considerations, and this added mental effort actually allows you to write the program faster? That is incredible. It's like being able to carve- and install a door from a slab of wood faster than installing a prefabricated door.
In my personal experience, once you're proficient in Rust, the initial cost is not somewhat high because those improvements in your ability to reason about your code base start snowballing quickly. And the long-term effects are enormous. I have literally picked up a project I hadn't worked on in years, made sweeping changes to the internals, and had every test pass in a pretty comprehensive suite the very first time it compiled.
It's cool that this is coming from huggingface and it isn't just someone's hobby project. Rust is in a weird place where people are trying to push it in a bunch of places where it doesn't belong naturally (web dev, data science) but then when you complain that it's difficult to use you get told that you're using the wrong language for your use case... I really want to like Rust - I've read the Rust book, done the Rus…
It may just be for different people, not sure. I'm a Rust fanatic, i use it for everything, including web dev. We even have a shop full of similar Rust folks. Personally it's my most productive language, and this is after years in Python, NodeJS, and ~5 years Go. Which isn't to attempt to invalidate your experience. But i do think: > writing Rust is a slog where you have to jump through hoops and spend a lot more tim…
It's cool that this is coming from huggingface and it isn't just someone's hobby project. Rust is in a weird place where people are trying to push it in a bunch of places where it doesn't belong naturally (web dev, data science) but then when you complain that it's difficult to use you get told that you're using the wrong language for your use case... I really want to like Rust - I've read the Rust book, done the Rus…
Typically the people I hear saying that are super Spring indoctrinated.