Ask HN: Will you use software that has telemetry on by default? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Will you use software that has telemetry on by default?

#21

Post by bluefishinit » Tue, Aug 08, 2023, 3:57 PM UTC

moomoo11 wrote: post #18

As long as it’s used to improve the product what’s wrong with that? Are product people supposed to chant and perform esoteric rituals to gain telekinetic insight into how the product is being used?

> As long as it’s used to improve the product what’s wrong with that?

I see it as a violation of privacy. I also don't think it leads to good products.

> Are product people supposed to chant and perform esoteric rituals to gain telekinetic insight into how the product is being used?

They should be knowledgeable in their field and leverage their experience to solve problems with the product. No telemetry was used to create the iPhone for instance, it was a product built with a strong vision. When you do telemetry driven development it's super easy to get trapped in local maxima. It also removes the creative process from product design.

Re: Ask HN: Will you use software that has telemetry on by default?

#22

Post by satvikpendem » Tue, Aug 08, 2023, 4:02 PM UTC

bluefishinit wrote: post #20

satvikpendem wrote: post #17

Yes, because I don't care about telemetry. I have telemetry in the products our company makes because it's a useful tool to see where customers are stuck. At the end of the day, those customers pay for our salaries so we'll do whatever we can to make them happy.

> customers pay for our salaries so we'll do whatever we can to make them happy To a lot of people that means no telemetry. Look at what happened with the Go compiler telemetry. I think that's the only time I've seen someone actually listen to customer desire and remove telemetry.

It's a good thing I don't make developer products then. It's wild how devs will literally use telemetry data to fix bugs in their employer's products yet won't give the same affordances to devs of other companies.

Re: Ask HN: Will you use software that has telemetry on by default?

#23

Post by bluefishinit » Tue, Aug 08, 2023, 4:03 PM UTC

satvikpendem wrote: post #22

bluefishinit wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> customers pay for our salaries so we'll do whatever we can to make them happy To a lot of people that means no telemetry. Look at what happened with the Go compiler telemetry. I think that's the only time I've seen someone actually listen to customer desire and remove telemetry.

It's a good thing I don't make developer products then. It's wild how devs will literally use telemetry data to fix bugs in their employer's products yet won't give the same affordances to devs of other companies.

> It's wild how devs will literally use telemetry data to fix bugs in their employer's products

Fwiw I'd never work somewhere that was doing telemetry driven development, so at least in my case this isn't true.

Re: Ask HN: Will you use software that has telemetry on by default?

#24

Post by moomoo11 » Tue, Aug 08, 2023, 6:24 PM UTC

bluefishinit wrote: post #21

moomoo11 wrote: post #18

As long as it’s used to improve the product what’s wrong with that? Are product people supposed to chant and perform esoteric rituals to gain telekinetic insight into how the product is being used?

> As long as it’s used to improve the product what’s wrong with that? I see it as a violation of privacy. I also don't think it leads to good products. > Are product people supposed to chant and perform esoteric rituals to gain telekinetic insight into how the product is being used? They should be knowledgeable in their field and leverage their experience to solve problems with the product. No telemetry was used to c…

I guess I’m more thinking about enterprise software products than physical products.

Re: Ask HN: Will you use software that has telemetry on by default?

#25

Post by bluefishinit » Tue, Aug 08, 2023, 6:57 PM UTC

moomoo11 wrote: post #24

bluefishinit wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As long as it’s used to improve the product what’s wrong with that? I see it as a violation of privacy. I also don't think it leads to good products. > Are product people supposed to chant and perform esoteric rituals to gain telekinetic insight into how the product is being used? They should be knowledgeable in their field and leverage their experience to solve problems with the product. No telemetry was used to c…

I guess I’m more thinking about enterprise software products than physical products.

I would say that consumer products and physical products are similar in that the bar is very high for UX and innovation so an expert with a point of view is the best option.

Enterprise product features are best off led by sales. What helps sell? What are customers complaining about? The UX bar is low for enterprise so the "too many cooks in the kitchen" model is passable there as long as the functionality matches the market.