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TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

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Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#231

Post by Vespasian »

berkes wrote: post #177
Nux wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think AI is an afterthought here, if at all. Automotive is the main target and to a degree IoT. They couldn't build cars during the pandemic due to broken supply chains, that's when their lightbulb went on afaik.

But isn't a lot of modern automotive all about ai? Stuff like image recognition on camera's and sensors, error prediction, data-aggregation and, in future, self-driving?

Not really.

Most tasks in a car do not run on high speed cutting edge chips.

A few random examples:

- adjusting your side mirrors - the control of the AC cooling unit and speed of the fans - electronically adjustable seats - parking sensors (the beeping kind) - wiper controls - engine controls (ice or BV) - inverter (BV)

All of those require electronics most require a microcontroller but not the latest 3nm Snapdragon.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#232

Post by Gasp0de »

mawadev wrote: post #211
dav_Oz wrote: post #178

For those unfamiliar with the region (Saxony, Dresden): A registered association ( e.V. in German) bluntly named "Silicon Saxony e.V." (est. in 2000) with over 450 members headquartered in Dresden pretty much sums up the infrastructure and ambition.[0][1] As pointed out the process TSMC’s 28/22 nanometer planar CMOS and 16/12 nanometer FinFET process technology (fabrication will begin in 2027) is not "cutting edge" b…

I guess we are the redundancy to taiwan soon...

Not really. The factory will not produce CPUs GPUs or other high end chips.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#233

Post by ko27 »

oytis wrote: post #137
KingOfCoders wrote: post #102

Silicon valley started by billions and billions of state money pumped into companies before, during and after WW2 (e.G IBM opened in San Jose in '43).

Nothing wrong with state subsidies, EU has just not been good at them historically (e.g. Galileo), and there is reasonable doubt that it is going to be better this time, as what they invest in is far from being a cutting edge technology.

What are you talking about? Galileo is a big win for the EU, even after taking into account the initial problems.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#234

Post by nabakin »

dontupvoteme wrote: post #139

Along with (hopefully) that french startup (Mistral) founded by the LLaMA guys, the EU is putting together the pieces they need to keep up with AI and maintain their ability to leverage their control mechanisms upon the FAANGS. Realpolitk wise they absolutely cannot risk regulatory capture to a few select firms on the west coast of the USA. Altman himself threatened (for a brief period) to cut off GPT to the EU after…

> Microsoft made him walk that one back real quick - he probably wasn't really aware that he is now one of their employees

Source?

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#235

Post by FirmwareBurner »

mathiasgredal wrote: post #219
FirmwareBurner wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're incorect. Trumpf doesn't make EUV light sources, just lasers. Cymer builds the EUV light sources, by blasting microparticles of tin with said Trumpf lasers to generate EUV light. > at least as far as I know. You could have also googled this to factcheck before posting if you were unsure ;)

Since ASML builds/integrates the machine, is there any reason why they couldn’t just pull out the EUV laser from the machine, but keep the trumpf lasers, zeiss mirrors and everything else. Then China could just copy the “shooting tin droplets with a laser at 50khz” part.

Because then the Us would get Germany to ban Zeiss and Trumpf and even if they wouldn't, the whole "shoot lasers at tin droplets" bit is insanely difficult to replicate that Canon and Nikon dropped out of the EUV race.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#236

Post by dna_polymerase »

dontupvoteme wrote: post #139

Along with (hopefully) that french startup (Mistral) founded by the LLaMA guys, the EU is putting together the pieces they need to keep up with AI and maintain their ability to leverage their control mechanisms upon the FAANGS. Realpolitk wise they absolutely cannot risk regulatory capture to a few select firms on the west coast of the USA. Altman himself threatened (for a brief period) to cut off GPT to the EU after…

> Along with (hopefully) that french startup (Mistral) founded by the LLaMA guys, the EU is putting together the pieces they need to keep up with AI and maintain their ability to leverage their control mechanisms upon the FAANGS.

These nodes are generations old and basically only in use in German cars with their abysmal 'software'. The only touching point these processors will ever have with AI is as an API endpoint to Google Voice or Siri.

Moreover, Mistral was widely seen as a joke and testimony to the catastrophic state European tech is in.

Europe is done. I have no idea why they rushed to regulate anything. In the end the U.S. startups will tell us what to do. Europe is a joke.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#237

Post by BlueTemplar »

coliveira wrote: post #163
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the US has been talking about bombing TSMC themselves[] The U.S. said nothing of the sort. One Congressman, in the minority no less, did.

You can say this about any US policy, until it is officially announced. It turns out that the US gov has made all the moves to weaponize Taiwan and make it the center of a war against China, so what is the surprise that they will bomb Taiwan if needed?

Isn't Taiwan planning to bomb itself if China invades ?

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#238

Post by yk »

llm_nerd wrote: post #210
dontupvoteme wrote: post #139

Along with (hopefully) that french startup (Mistral) founded by the LLaMA guys, the EU is putting together the pieces they need to keep up with AI and maintain their ability to leverage their control mechanisms upon the FAANGS. Realpolitk wise they absolutely cannot risk regulatory capture to a few select firms on the west coast of the USA. Altman himself threatened (for a brief period) to cut off GPT to the EU after…

The fab is for chips that are something along the lines of 4 generations old, and that's ignoring that they won't start manufacturing until 2027... This has absolutely nothing to do with AI or LLMs. Generally these are automation chips for machinery or vehicles. "Microsoft made him walk that one back real quick" This sounds like a weird fan fiction. OpenAI openly negotiates with EU governments. No one walked back any…

The technology is roughly 10 years behind, but in the scenario that the replacement capability becomes important is something like Trump fumbles the great power competition and US and China have a nice nuclear moment. And frankly making do with Haswell era CPUs is lamentable but as far as nuclear exchanges go not that bad.

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#239

Post by FirmwareBurner »

jupp0r wrote: post #227
dav_Oz wrote: post #178

For those unfamiliar with the region (Saxony, Dresden): A registered association ( e.V. in German) bluntly named "Silicon Saxony e.V." (est. in 2000) with over 450 members headquartered in Dresden pretty much sums up the infrastructure and ambition.[0][1] As pointed out the process TSMC’s 28/22 nanometer planar CMOS and 16/12 nanometer FinFET process technology (fabrication will begin in 2027) is not "cutting edge" b…

Having lived there for a decade, I must point out that you are painting a very one sided picture of the region. It's also a hot spot for Germany's populist right. I've witnessed visiting Indian colleagues of mine being threatened on the street for having dark skin and racist demonstrations are a weekly occurrence. I eventually moved away (among other reasons) because I didn't want my kids to grow up in this environme…

Question: does that mean there are no indian restaurants in Dresden?

Re: TSMC, Bosch, Infineon, NXP to jointly build semiconductor fab in Europe

#240

Post by BlueTemplar »

nottorp wrote: post #194
oblio wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People who don't understand what OP just wrote should look at what just happened to the South Korean semiconductor market. over 36% plunge in exports[] and that samsungs memory profit dropped 95%. Is demand for electronics finally dropping? I want to be able to buy a 3 year old Nvidia low-range GPU at below MSRP...

I've been forwarded this piece of apparently bad news recently: https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/report-nvidia-has-practic... So I wouldn't hold my breath.

Why would people not just buy AMD GPUs instead ? It's not like they are much worse, in fact last I checked it was Nvidia GPUs that were problematic if you had Linux in mind !
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