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How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features

blog.zoom.us

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Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features

#151

Post by bspammer »

chefandy wrote: post #77
autoexec wrote: post #51

Zoom was proved as being dishonest and untrustworthy years ago ( https://citizenlab.ca/2020/04/move-fast-roll-your-own-crypto... ) but companies never cared about the privacy of the people they forced to use the software and all the security problems and leaks that followed still didn't discourage people from using it. I doubt their mining of personal data for AI will stop people from using it either. Although there…

> they are all "too hard" or something Users vote with their feet based on cost and UX. While intertia is certainly a thing, there's a reason Zoom got a foothold while others didn't. The ability to send out links and having people join the meeting without creating accounts or manually installing clients first is huge in most real-world scenarios. Could you do that with... Teams? Skype? Hangouts if they weren't gmail…

You can do that in Google Meet. I just checked in an incognito window, the only thing I needed to enter to join a meeting was a name.

I never really understood why people like Zoom's UX, I find it unintuitive and awkward.

Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features

#152

Post by fabbari »

mplewis wrote: post #5
berbec wrote: post #4

This is a nice statement, but the TOS is the important part, not what this marketing piece says. > You agree to grant and hereby grant Zoom a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicensable, and transferable license and all other rights required or necessary to redistribute, publish, import, access, use, store, transmit, review, disclose, preserve, extract, modify, reproduce, share, use, display, cop…

The TOS has been updated to state the following: > Notwithstanding the above, Zoom will not use audio, video or chat Customer Content to train our artificial intelligence models without your consent.

Interesting that they limited the clause to only audio, video and chat. Looking at their definition of Customer Content it means that they can use, for example, documents you shared, transcripts, a very nebulous ‘outputs’ and visual displays.

So they can create a transcript of the conversation and train with it. Or train on any document you may have shared during a Zoom meeting.

I woukd have preferred the exception - if that was the intent - to enumerate the components of the Customer Content that they want to use for training.

10.1 Customer Content. You or your End Users may provide, upload, or originate data, content, files, documents, or other materials (collectively, “Customer Input”) in accessing or using the Services or Software, and Zoom may provide, create, or make available to you, in its sole discretion or as part of the Services, certain derivatives, transcripts, analytics, outputs, visual displays, or data sets resulting from the Customer Input (together with Customer Input, “Customer Content”);

Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features

#153

Post by denton-scratch »

gchamonlive wrote: post #27
berbec wrote: post #4

This is a nice statement, but the TOS is the important part, not what this marketing piece says. > You agree to grant and hereby grant Zoom a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicensable, and transferable license and all other rights required or necessary to redistribute, publish, import, access, use, store, transmit, review, disclose, preserve, extract, modify, reproduce, share, use, display, cop…

> redistribute, publish, import, access, use, store, transmit, review, disclose, preserve, extract, modify, reproduce, share, use, display, copy, distribute, translate, transcribe, create This is very Technologic

They're also allowed to use it twice. Also, they can distribute it, and then redistribute it.

Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features

#154

Post by sneak »

Lio wrote: post #148

What I really want to know is, can I as someone compelled to use Zoom as an employee can opt-out of Zoom training their AI on my voice, image and data? If my employer is the "customer" what say, if any, do I have as an individual? By participating in a call am I giving Zoom permission to do things like train deep fakes of me? This is all too Blackmirrory for my liking.

You're not compelled; you get to choose your employer.

It's much the same as the issue that was raised a few days ago, where your employer instructs or expects you to lie. The only way they have to "force" you is to threaten dismissal; this is insufficient to justify the terms "compel" or "force".

A police officer holding a Glock can compel you. Your boss cannot.

Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features

#155

Post by denton-scratch »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #39
ec109685 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Always wise to remember Hanlon's razor: "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence" Occam's razor also applies here.

I'm sorry, I didn't maliciously stab the guy, I was just really, really, really incompetent with handling this axe.

I'd have thought stabbing someone with an axe would require extreme competence.

Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features

#156

Post by dolmen »

berbec wrote: post #4

This is a nice statement, but the TOS is the important part, not what this marketing piece says. > You agree to grant and hereby grant Zoom a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicensable, and transferable license and all other rights required or necessary to redistribute, publish, import, access, use, store, transmit, review, disclose, preserve, extract, modify, reproduce, share, use, display, cop…

The main point is that "You agree" is the customer, not the end user.

Which means that in the case where Zoom is provided to you by your employer, they claim that the employer consent is just what matters. Once more "Fuck GDPR".

Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features

#157

Post by dolmen »

aftbit wrote: post #54
gnfargbl wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which provider will you be moving to, and have you checked that their ToS are more acceptable?

If you don't need the "advanced" zoom features, I can highly recommend Jitsi. Free public service and you can self-host if you need it. We have been running a fully remote company with 90% of meetings via Jitsi since COVID with great success. I recommend Chrome over Firefox though, as FF's WebRTC support is behind Google's.

Jitsi but using Chrome doesn't fix anything privacy-wise.

Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features

#158

Post by nabakin »

mplewis wrote: post #5
berbec wrote: post #4

This is a nice statement, but the TOS is the important part, not what this marketing piece says. > You agree to grant and hereby grant Zoom a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicensable, and transferable license and all other rights required or necessary to redistribute, publish, import, access, use, store, transmit, review, disclose, preserve, extract, modify, reproduce, share, use, display, cop…

The TOS has been updated to state the following: > Notwithstanding the above, Zoom will not use audio, video or chat Customer Content to train our artificial intelligence models without your consent.

It's gone. They removed this part.

https://www.diffchecker.com/RLiqgAaA/

Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features

#159

Post by dolmen »

sneak wrote: post #154
Lio wrote: post #148

What I really want to know is, can I as someone compelled to use Zoom as an employee can opt-out of Zoom training their AI on my voice, image and data? If my employer is the "customer" what say, if any, do I have as an individual? By participating in a call am I giving Zoom permission to do things like train deep fakes of me? This is all too Blackmirrory for my liking.

You're not compelled; you get to choose your employer. It's much the same as the issue that was raised a few days ago, where your employer instructs or expects you to lie. The only way they have to "force" you is to threaten dismissal; this is insufficient to justify the terms "compel" or "force". A police officer holding a Glock can compel you. Your boss cannot.

Resigning with a 3 months notice period would not fix the issue anyway. I would still have to use Zoom for that period.

I had the same issue when my EU-based employer was sold to an US company. My personal data suddenly went from EU to US-based HR systems without my consent. Resigning would not have fixed anything. My personal data will be in the US forever.

Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features

#160

Post by dolmen »

synaesthesisx wrote: post #58

I wonder if they allow opting-out. My last company was in the healthcare space, and we used Zoom for all internal communication. Often this could contain sensitive information (PII etc) which would likely be a privacy violation if exposed.

The GDPR page of Zoom is just a joke: https://explore.zoom.us/en/gdpr/

They basically claim that the customer (the one who signs the contract, not the Zoom user) who hosts the meeting is responsible for GDPR compliance by defining the right account settings. So if you are invited on a call you basically have no rights.

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