Question (I may know the answer), if the call is end to end encrypted, how can they use users content?
Zoom is not E2EE by default, and when E2EE is enabled, many Zoom features are not available, including presumably the new AI features.
How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features
141–150 of 185 posts
Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
Got any data to back this up or are you just spouting racist tropes?
Making generalized claims about companies is racist now? I must've missed the memo. I guess it makes sense. Companies are people, after all
They're not making claims about companies, they're making claims about cultures (American, European, Japanese).
Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
The AI part isn't the bad part. It's the "use for marketing", like gMail. One implication is that lawyers can no longer use Zoom for anything which is attorney-client privileged.
How does this add up with E2EE? They claim they can’t read anything passing through the server. Is there some other way they’ll get access? https://support.zoom.us/hc/en-us/articles/360048660871-End-t... .
e2ee is not the default, and is incompatible with some of their other features like "cloud recordings".
they also got caught being malicious and/or dumb in the past (https://www.businessinsider.com/china-zoom-data-2020-4) so there's no reason to bother with them now.
Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
They have added: > Notwithstanding the above, Zoom will not use audio, video or chat Customer Content to train our artificial intelligence models without your consent.
Doesn't the TOS already count as consent?
That is where I am stuck.
Until the TOS clearly says otherwise, as far as I can see, the TOS at least implies this:
1. We will not use your data to train AI without your consent.
2. By accepting these TOS, you give your consent to everything in this long list (which includes training AI).
Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features
#145Earlier quoted context omitted.
[The ability to send out links and having people join the meeting without creating accounts or manually installing clients first is huge in most real-world scenarios ] this is how it used to be, until HTTPS and cloudflare-like hosting solutions, were guzzled back like electric kool-aid. all you really needed was an IP and perhaps a port number if endpoint was behind NAT.
I worked in technical support when techniques like that were de rigeur. Your average adult would be exponentially less likely to navigate that process successfully than a zoom invite. Sure, it's more simple from a technical perspective, but not even close to as simple from a user flow standpoint.
I notice in these comments it’s really hard to drive home User Experience and friction (sometimes!) and what seems easy to you (just an IP address!) is really like talking magic to your average user.
Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
Doesn't the TOS already count as consent?
That is where I am stuck. Until the TOS clearly says otherwise, as far as I can see, the TOS at least implies this: 1. We will not use your data to train AI without your consent. 2. By accepting these TOS, you give your consent to everything in this long list (which includes training AI).
In Europe/UK, it is established law that agreeing to TOS is not consent for everything in it, especially when referring to the use of personal data for things that aren't strictly necessary to do what the user has asked, and also especially given that in order for it to be consent freely given then there must be no difference in service depending on whether consent is given or not.
However, many companies reckon they'll get away with it, the enforcement is not universal and rapid, and I don't trust Zoom as far as I can throw it on this particular score.
Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features
#147Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apparently the TOS can be edited at any time to say anything without notice. It’s worth mentioning that per this agreement they can still do almost anything else with that data. They could put your face up on a billboard if they wanted to. I’m out. I was a paying user. Can’t run fast enough from ever doing business with them again.
Per the agreement using the service can probably be considered consent. Ie “we won’t use your data without your consent” translates to legal code “if you accept the TOS which you do if you use the app, then you’ve given consent”
That argument wouldn't fly in a court of law in the EU/UK, but many many companies try it on anyway.
Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features
#148What I really want to know is, can I as someone compelled to use Zoom as an employee can opt-out of Zoom training their AI on my voice, image and data?
If my employer is the "customer" what say, if any, do I have as an individual?
By participating in a call am I giving Zoom permission to do things like train deep fakes of me?
This is all too Blackmirrory for my liking.
Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features
#149Called it a few days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37022827 It's baffling how many people in previous threads thought a company that gets most of its money from enterprise/business clients, will burn all their reputation by surreptitiously using client data to train their AI.
Always wise to remember Hanlon's razor: "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence" Occam's razor also applies here.
There are two aspects to that saying.
The word adequately, and the fact it was made when presuming good faith was more reasonable.
These days it's better to assume everything is theft, fraud, or marketing.
Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apparently the TOS can be edited at any time to say anything without notice. It’s worth mentioning that per this agreement they can still do almost anything else with that data. They could put your face up on a billboard if they wanted to. I’m out. I was a paying user. Can’t run fast enough from ever doing business with them again.
Which provider will you be moving to, and have you checked that their ToS are more acceptable?
Most "free markets" in the US -- certainly all that matter -- are dominated by 2 or 3 players, and when they all agree to do the same sorts of anti-consumer things, there's nowhere to go. Even if Teams or some other small player has better ToS now, who's to say they won't do the same thing tomorrow? Or do it anyway, without telling anyone?