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Raku: A language for gremlins

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121–130 of 257 posts

Re: Raku: A language for gremlins

#121
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only old C++, new C++ creeps up the y axis.

C++ occupies a region of the space rather than a singular point, since old C++ is part of new C++.

I’d say C++ fills the space. It can be as dumb or as clever as you want it. It’s horrifying in a third dimension.

Re: Raku: A language for gremlins

#123
post #71

One way you might arranging programming languages in a 2D space is with two axes: 1. How much should the language surprise you? 2. When the language does surprise you, should it delight you or horrify you? surprising ^ | | | delight horrify | | | v unsurprising Only a sadist would deliberately design a language for the top right quadrant, but there are many esoteric languages in there. I think most people tacitly ass…

The issue I have with the language is that I went from the top left of that graph to fairly far on the right, vacillating between the top or bottom. That happened for me long before it became Raku. I clearly remember reading through the synopsis and exegesis documents around fifteen years ago and being excited for what was to come, but I also remember the first bits that gave me pause. Like unspace[1]. I also clearly…

Perl used to bandy about "TMTOWTDI" (Tim Towdy) incessantly in those days of Perl4/5.

There's More Than One Way To Do It

Re: Raku: A language for gremlins

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they almost always what you want? Like, what kind of code do you work on? I personally find, that I need floats quite rarely and rationals usually are just fine, when I write Scheme. And when I write Python, floats also don't come up that often, except for in places where I would rather like to have exact numbers than inexact ones, always making me doubt, whether what I calculate here might have too big error in…

It's mostly in calculating percentages, measuring timing, computing the interval to wait to satisfy a rate limit, that sort of thing. None of those require the extra overhead of an exact datatype in the contexts I'm using them.

It's funny that you're talking about this in a Python context, because pretty much every few lines will be 50-100x overhead. I take your point that Python would probably slow this type of thing down even more than it should, but still... Python is the exact type of language where this type of generalization to something slower but "more correct" makes sense in my opinion.

For what it's worth I agree with you when it comes to languages where 50+x overhead isn't an ever-present fact; you should generally have to opt in to using decimal types and the like.

Re: Raku: A language for gremlins

#125
post #105

Isn't this still the usual critique of a language before knowing much about the language? We were used to this with Perl's "line noise". Now we get > Raku has no qualms about using Unicode operators. You have the option. I have used this option because I want my code to be compact and expressive on screen. A good fit for careful, considered, creative unicode usage. Or the ever popular (Jeez that's new): > I hate the…

How do you type the non-ASCII operators? Special keyboard layout? Your editor automatically converting some sequences? Raw Unicode escapes? This seems complicated pointless to me just to save a couple characters.

Re: Raku: A language for gremlins

#126

One way you might arranging programming languages in a 2D space is with two axes: 1. How much should the language surprise you? 2. When the language does surprise you, should it delight you or horrify you? surprising ^ | | | delight horrify | | | v unsurprising Only a sadist would deliberately design a language for the top right quadrant, but there are many esoteric languages in there. I think most people tacitly ass…

Thank you for your effort with the ASCII art. Must have taken some time.

Re: Raku: A language for gremlins

#127
Raku? Nice but, way too much magic, trying to be too smart and ending up being too late and too slow. And I'm happily doing Perl5 for $work, among other things. Going to write my new/other stuff in Ruby. Then I could use Crystal I ever want static typing, a compiler and binaries. Sane tradeoff between magic and a programming language out of Disc World.

Re: Raku: A language for gremlins

#128
post #39
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unable to deduce arithmetic or geometric sequence from: 1,2,5 Did you really mean '..'?

> arithmetic or geometric See, that doesn't delight me. OEIS is what's needed here.

Well… that was supposedly considered at some point:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=BJIfPFpaMRI&t=1891 (~1m)

Re: Raku: A language for gremlins

#129
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> arithmetic or geometric See, that doesn't delight me. OEIS is what's needed here.

Do you want it to take the first match? Inputting a unique prefix doesn't sound practical.

That would lead to weird behavior since the OEIS is sorted by number of references, which I think prefers "interesting" solutions over straightforward ones. For (1, 2, 3), the positive integers are only ranked 5th -- the top hit are the Fibonacci numbers. It's funny to think about.

Re: Raku: A language for gremlins

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Python top right, Go bottom right, Brainfuck bottom left, Rust or Perl top left. (Don't kill me fanatics)

Do you think many people would put Rust and Perl next to each other?

In this chart, sure. Not like, the same dot, but both in that quadrant. But those are my personal opinions, as I find both difficult to read yet very expressive. YMMV.
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