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Aeroflot deactivates brakes on nine aircraft, relies solely on reverse thrust

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Re: Aeroflot deactivates brakes on nine aircraft, relies solely on reverse thrust

#181

While I agree that we should be sanctioning Russia, I think a carve-out should be made for things like commercial aviation parts. Eventually there will be an accident as a result of parts that can't be replaced, we don't need more lives lost to this war.

If the options are:

- have sanctions, more Russians die, and fewer Ukrainians die because the war ends sooner

- the opposite

Then your suggestion seems to value Russian lives over Ukrainian ones.

Re: Aeroflot deactivates brakes on nine aircraft, relies solely on reverse thrust

#182
post #28

I'm curious the actual mechanics of this operation. The main primary-source I found is a Telegram post of an Aeroflot pilot memo [0], but this only discusses the side-effects of reverser only braking, not the mechanics of "disabling the brakes." There is a possibility the brakes are still available and not worn through, and this is a preemptive measure to leave enough brake material to handle an emergency rejected ta…

So I used to work in aircraft maintenance (never in Russia though) and the policy is to change the brakes when there is $minimum_thickness of brake pad remaining.

There's a little wire embedded in the pad and eventually as the pad wears thin the wire completes a circuit with the rotor, and lights up the aerospace version of the Check Engine Light.

The brakes on these planes certainly have some remaining life but they're technically unserviceable as per the airworthiness policy that Boeing/whomever produced as part of the approved maintenance program for these aircraft.

Whether the Russians follow that policy is another question. When I was in the Air Force we saw lots of Russian military Antonovs and they, uh, weren't in good shape.

Re: Aeroflot deactivates brakes on nine aircraft, relies solely on reverse thrust

#183
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that is exactly "klyukva leaking into seemingly serious reasoning" I was talking about here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37041836 There are myriad of reasons why this is not realistic, but if I were to pick the most obvious, that would be 1. No, there is no "complete control of the media", IDK why people assume it to be the case. Broadcast federal tv has to be politically correct, but not too much beyond…

>No, there is no "complete control of the media", IDK why people assume it to be the case. Broadcast federal tv has to be politically correct, but not too much beyond that. This is why recent prigozhin roadtrip to moscow completely didn't happen at all according to russian media ? or is it just a case of been "politically correct" ? and tv station absolutely not given talking points by kremlin ?

> This is why recent prigozhin roadtrip to moscow completely didn't happen at all according to russian media ?

Who exactly told you this? I assume you don't personally interact with Russian media? You can check that what you claim is not true with just a few keystorkes. Do you need a list of popular media outlets in case you can't find on your own?

I am honestly curious why are you so sure of this, because I see these kinds of extremely confident claims about "did not happen according to Russian media" on the other side of the language barrier way more often than you would expect from random assumptions.

There must be someone who feeds you this idea.

> and tv station absolutely not given talking points by kremlin ?

I am not sure I completely understand you here. They report from the perspective and the angle of Russia, just as their western counterparts (e.g. NY Times, Washingtonpost, BBC) report from their geopolitical angle and perspective. Please elaborate.

Re: Aeroflot deactivates brakes on nine aircraft, relies solely on reverse thrust

#184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I flew on a Russian domestic flight 10-ish years ago, and people were still lighting up cigarettes on the plane if that says anything.

Weird, smoking on civillian aircrafts was forbidden in 2002.

2002 was only 8-9 years ago.

Source: am a millennial, the math checks out for me

Re: Aeroflot deactivates brakes on nine aircraft, relies solely on reverse thrust

#185

Take off and landing aside, can you properly control the aircraft on the ground without brakes? I'm thinking of stopping at hold short lines, at the gate, etc. How precise, responsive is reverse thrust in those cases? Or will they get picked up by those little cars and pulled right after landing?

It's not very responsive at all. Nor is it meant for this purpose. It's just a brake assist for use on the runway. Also, reverse trust is hard to maneuver with considering you will immediately start reversing once you've stopped moving. Unlike a brake that has a stop as an "end state". If they really start taxiing using that it'll lead to collisions at least, I'm sure, because of unintended reversing. It's a harebrai…

The thrust reversers are more than just an assist on the runway. You can land without the reversers, but I'm pretty sure you'll have to go get the brakes replaced before it's ready to fly again. It'll also consume a dangerous amount of the runway.

The reversers are no joke, especially when the aircraft is heavily laden.

Re: Aeroflot deactivates brakes on nine aircraft, relies solely on reverse thrust

#186
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I flew from Moscow to Vladivastok recently, and it's a choice between 8 hour flight and a week in a train. The planes might be missing some maintenance, but they are certainly not falling out of the skies, and it's not like the trains can't fail (especially considering occasional train tracks sabotages). There are always risks, it's not that big of a deal.

> The planes might be missing some maintenance, but they are certainly not falling out of the skies Yet. You don't want to be in the first one that does. Planes have gone down for much stupider reasons. Even serious airlines like KLM (Cityhopper) and Air France have flown perfectly good aircraft into the ground. It doesn't have to be faulty, human confusion is enough. Going outside of normal procedures like this redu…

Oh, you may be surprised by the number of perfectly avoidable, not even cost-saving stupid things that cause train accidents around the world.

The GP has a point. If the trip is necessary, planes are probably the safest way to do it. And as they become unsafe, the alternatives are prone to doing the same on an even quicker rate.

Re: Aeroflot deactivates brakes on nine aircraft, relies solely on reverse thrust

#187
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just lies. I tracked this situation and watched official TV. There was interruption at night with breaking news which informed about Prigozhin mutiny. Few hours later there was Putin interruption where he condemned this action and publicly called them a traitors. I don't think that there were many Russians who were not aware of this situation in this day. Some details could have been hidden, like shot down he…

and after those 2 glorious day ? how much discussion on television ? "on june 23-24 absolutely nothing happened in russia" didn't came to existence by accident

> "on june 23-24 absolutely nothing happened in russia" didn't came to existence by accident

How exactly did it come to existance though? It honestly feels like some kind of gaslighting. Putin did a whole speach on TV and this was a hot topic for weeks. Popular Z-bloggers were all over this matter even longer.

Prigozhins hairwigs meme didnt come to existence by accident either, you know.

I really feel like you might want to reconsider interactig with Russian media through what I assume are 3rd-party reports.

Re: Aeroflot deactivates brakes on nine aircraft, relies solely on reverse thrust

#188
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No, there is no "complete control of the media", IDK why people assume it to be the case. Broadcast federal tv has to be politically correct, but not too much beyond that. This is why recent prigozhin roadtrip to moscow completely didn't happen at all according to russian media ? or is it just a case of been "politically correct" ? and tv station absolutely not given talking points by kremlin ?

> This is why recent prigozhin roadtrip to moscow completely didn't happen at all according to russian media ? Who exactly told you this? I assume you don't personally interact with Russian media? You can check that what you claim is not true with just a few keystorkes. Do you need a list of popular media outlets in case you can't find on your own? I am honestly curious why are you so sure of this, because I see thes…

>Who exactly told you this? I assume you don't personally interact with Russian media? You can check that what you claim is not true with just a few keystorkes. Do you need a list of popular media outlets in case you can't find on your own?

after those two days it went to "on june 23-24 absolutely nothing happened in russia"

>There must be someone who feeds you this idea.

i am native russian speaker (not russian. never lived in russia). nobody feeds me anything. i been tracking russian media for past two and a half decades. after prigozhin voyage reporting was about attorney general ending criminal investigation "because it was inproperly started" and few pr shows with putin about his unity with people and stuff.

in any other "normative" country there will be non-stop discussion in all media for weeks about what happened.

>I am not sure I completely understand you here. They report from the perspective and the angle of Russia, just as their western counterparts (e.g. NY Times, Washingtonpost, BBC) report from their geopolitical angle and perspective. Please elaborate.

In Russia media is controlled by kremlin. It's "widely" reported what are the general talking points are delivered by kremlin to media and what topics should be suppressed.

You want to say that white house and american media companies have same relationship ?

Re: Aeroflot deactivates brakes on nine aircraft, relies solely on reverse thrust

#189

What’s going to be the effect of increased use of the engine? Airlines like to derate their engines for takeoffs that don’t require full performance in order to save wear and tear; how much quicker are the engines going to require overhaul due to extraordinary reverse thruster usage? I guess the brakes involve more rapidly consumable items, but this seems like a decidedly suboptimal solution when it knocks a good por…

I seriously doubt the thrust reversers significantly shorten the life of the engine for the few seconds they're on.

All the reverser is is a couple of hydraulically operated clamshells that close over the exhaust stream forcing it to the side rather than back.

Ironically, it doesn't actually "reverse" the thrust. The exhaust stream impinges on the clamshell, pushing the airplane backwards.

Re: Aeroflot deactivates brakes on nine aircraft, relies solely on reverse thrust

#190

My heart bleeds. FTA: "Many parts in (western made) Russian passenger aircraft that would normally be easily replaced are rapidly wearing out with no replacement parts in sight due to the import of spare aircraft parts from Boeing and Airbus being banned since March 2022. " I wonder what other parts are wearing out.

I would be curious about things like lubrication and the hydraulic systems where deferring maintenance is easy but repairs once there are problems are potentially very costly. Hopefully the manufacturers can get some of the data back, it seems like this kind of deferred maintenance is an experiment nobody would run willingly but given that it's happening the data could help improve safe and efficient fleet operations…

Maintenance issues are constantly fed back to the design teams that adjust the designs.
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