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How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features

blog.zoom.us

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Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features

#81

Post by happytiger »

berbec wrote: post #4

This is a nice statement, but the TOS is the important part, not what this marketing piece says. > You agree to grant and hereby grant Zoom a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicensable, and transferable license and all other rights required or necessary to redistribute, publish, import, access, use, store, transmit, review, disclose, preserve, extract, modify, reproduce, share, use, display, cop…

We can drop them from all of our portfolio companies and I personally can as well.

But what are the best alternatives at the moment?

Zoom is very popular…

Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features

#82

Post by willsmith72 »

happytiger wrote: post #81
berbec wrote: post #4

This is a nice statement, but the TOS is the important part, not what this marketing piece says. > You agree to grant and hereby grant Zoom a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicensable, and transferable license and all other rights required or necessary to redistribute, publish, import, access, use, store, transmit, review, disclose, preserve, extract, modify, reproduce, share, use, display, cop…

We can drop them from all of our portfolio companies and I personally can as well. But what are the best alternatives at the moment? Zoom is very popular…

I find google meet pretty good. The zoom desktop client kills my mac, but the web client doesn't have great performance. Meet performs better in the browser for me

Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features

#83

Post by happytiger »

Imnimo wrote: post #43
berbec wrote: post #4

This is a nice statement, but the TOS is the important part, not what this marketing piece says. > You agree to grant and hereby grant Zoom a perpetual, worldwide, non-exclusive, royalty-free, sublicensable, and transferable license and all other rights required or necessary to redistribute, publish, import, access, use, store, transmit, review, disclose, preserve, extract, modify, reproduce, share, use, display, cop…

Yeah, if the TOS says one thing, and a blogpost pinky-promises another, only one of those two actually counts as far as I'm concerned.

I actually consider the act of doublespeak potentially insinuating ill intent.

What you and what you say need to be consistent to preserve user trust and then being inconsistent shows mismanagement by senior leadership or even potentially intent to deceive or spin the situation while still implementing the policy. It’s the PR classic do one thing say another.

Edit: Oh, and then this hits almost at the same time…

https://www.sfgate.com/tech/article/zoom-return-to-office-an...

Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features

#84

Post by nomel »

sleepybrett wrote: post #14
dr_monster wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently the TOS can be edited at any time to say anything without notice. It’s worth mentioning that per this agreement they can still do almost anything else with that data. They could put your face up on a billboard if they wanted to. I’m out. I was a paying user. Can’t run fast enough from ever doing business with them again.

How about analyze all the meetings from company x in order to insider trade or perform some other kind of corporate sabatoge.

> or perform some other kind of corporate sabatoge.

Webex seems to be the "corporate" video conference service, when secrets are a concern, from my experience.

Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features

#85

Post by nightpool »

willsmith72 wrote: post #82
happytiger wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can drop them from all of our portfolio companies and I personally can as well. But what are the best alternatives at the moment? Zoom is very popular…

I find google meet pretty good. The zoom desktop client kills my mac, but the web client doesn't have great performance. Meet performs better in the browser for me

Every time I try to use Meet in an up to date Google Chrome MacBook, it makes my entire browser stutter. And it's much worse than the Zoom desktop client when it comes to audio cancelling and visual quality

Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features

#86

Post by nightpool »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #75
autoexec wrote: post #51

Zoom was proved as being dishonest and untrustworthy years ago ( https://citizenlab.ca/2020/04/move-fast-roll-your-own-crypto... ) but companies never cared about the privacy of the people they forced to use the software and all the security problems and leaks that followed still didn't discourage people from using it. I doubt their mining of personal data for AI will stop people from using it either. Although there…

Well, there's a couple of reasons that people use it: 1) Until recently, Zoom's video/audio quality knocked everyone else's into a cocked hat. I don't think that's the case, anymore. Looks like a lot of folks got off their butts, and improved their quality, but I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere, by anyone. 2) Everyone else is using it. #2 is a biggie. Monopoly inertia is pretty hard to overcome, for people not i…

What video platforms do you think improved their audio quality to be comparable to Zoom? Meet certainly hasn't, their noise cancelling is awful and isn't going to get better as long as they're stuck in the browser. (I'm fine with browser performance 99% of the time, but when I'm spending hours a day on calls I'm going to prefer Zoom and native-quality audio processing)

Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features

#87

Post by singleshot_ »

lolinder wrote: post #73
singleshot_ wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I stand corrected. I suppose reading the contract instead of snarking might have allowed me to avoid the embarrassment. Thank you.

Thanks for responding graciously!

When in Rome; you as well.

Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features

#88

Post by TheRealPomax »

jackpt wrote: post #35
TheRealPomax wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$85M may be nothing to Apple, Facebook, or Google, but to Zoom it's a substantial amount. Their quarterly net income for Q1 2023 was only 15.4M. (Even if revenue was much higher. Revenue doesn't tell you anything about how well a company can take a financial hit)

Aren't those fines inflated due to the companies having a large revenue/to make an example?

I wish, the bigger the company, the smaller the fines (proportionally) tend to be. Like slapping Google on the wrist with a $125m fine. "oh no, an amount we can make back in about an hour, whatever shall we do!"

Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features

#89

Post by function_seven »

ec109685 wrote: post #19
gruez wrote: post #3

Called it a few days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37022827 It's baffling how many people in previous threads thought a company that gets most of its money from enterprise/business clients, will burn all their reputation by surreptitiously using client data to train their AI.

Always wise to remember Hanlon's razor: "Never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence" Occam's razor also applies here.

I'm done with Hanlon and his Razor. It's useless.

I now use Hanlon's Shaving Brush. Its a broad brush that I use to paint every sketchy move businesses make. "Is it malice? Or is it incompetence that merely looks like malice?". I don't care! I'll assume malice unless otherwise shown.

It's not my job to try and find out how evil shit was done accidentally. It doesn't matter if they "oopsied" into selling a firehose of my data to a "trusted partner" to analyze to death. Nobody actually gives a shit at these companies, so I need to treat them all as if they're malicious. If the underlying cause was a bit of incompetence a few years ago, that does nothing for me when I'm discovering the fuckery.

Re: How Zoom’s terms of service and practices apply to AI features

#90

Post by kevdev »

synaesthesisx wrote: post #58

I wonder if they allow opting-out. My last company was in the healthcare space, and we used Zoom for all internal communication. Often this could contain sensitive information (PII etc) which would likely be a privacy violation if exposed.

Yeah medical info and HIPAA was the first thing I thought of when I saw this. My company doesn’t deal with medical data but I can’t imagine any company dealing with PII wants to use Zoom now.
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