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Zoom's TOS Permit Training AI on User Content Without Opt-Out

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Re: Zoom's TOS Permit Training AI on User Content Without Opt-Out

#21

Post by dylan604 »

j45 wrote: post #15

I’d like to think HN had a small role in making Zoom blink and “clarify” that open ended rights to do what they wanted somehow isn’t what the original text said or intended. But the reality is this wording could come back in another form. Lawyers will lawyer. Still the world gets better at learning to read terms of services together and that’s magical.

> Still the world gets better at learning to read terms of services together and that’s magical.

Does it though? I think it's more along the lines that the amount of reading of ToS is the same/similar as it has always been. It's just now that when someone does actually read them, there's a bigger bullhorn to shout from. It's only then that the internet gets stirred up. It's not like you or I read this ToS to catch this.

Re: Zoom's TOS Permit Training AI on User Content Without Opt-Out

#22

Post by sean_hogle »

In sec. 10.4, Zoom says "Notwithstanding the above, Zoom will not use audio, video or chat Customer Content to train our artificial intelligence models without your consent."

Customer Content is defined in 10.1 broadly. But sec. 10.2 clearly states that "Customer Content" does NOT include "Service Generated Data."

Service Generated Data = "any telemetry data, product usage data, diagnostic data, and similar content or data that Zoom collects or generates in connection with your or your End Users’ use of the Services ...." (sec. 10.2).

Zoom is allowed to use Service Generated Data for any purpose (sec. 10.2).

This "clarification" does nothing meaningful to assuage the serious data privacy concerns posed by Zoom's use of captured user video content.

Re: Zoom's TOS Permit Training AI on User Content Without Opt-Out

#23

Post by SeanLuke »

drhagen wrote: post #8
lolinder wrote: post #5

Not only is this a dupe, it's now outdated. Zoom re-updated their ToS to clarify that they will not do this. Current discussion on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37037196 The added clause: > Notwithstanding the above, Zoom will not use audio, video or chat Customer Content to train our artificial intelligence models without your consent. EDIT: Since a bunch of people are chiming in here to respond to me abo…

> Zoom re-updated their ToS to clarify that they will not do this. To be more specific, they clarified that they absolutely _will_ do this. But they provide an opt-out. That "without your consent" is carrying a lot of weight in the TOS. From the blog post: > When you choose to enable Zoom IQ Meeting Summary or Zoom IQ Team Chat Compose, you will also be presented with a transparent consent process for training our AI…

> But they provide an opt-out.

It sounds like an opt-in to me.

Re: Zoom's TOS Permit Training AI on User Content Without Opt-Out

#24

Post by hunter2_ »

SeanLuke wrote: post #23
drhagen wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Zoom re-updated their ToS to clarify that they will not do this. To be more specific, they clarified that they absolutely _will_ do this. But they provide an opt-out. That "without your consent" is carrying a lot of weight in the TOS. From the blog post: > When you choose to enable Zoom IQ Meeting Summary or Zoom IQ Team Chat Compose, you will also be presented with a transparent consent process for training our AI…

> But they provide an opt-out. It sounds like an opt-in to me.

All opt-out flows begin with the user opting into using the parent thing in the first place. That doesn't really make the child thing opt-in, in any useful sense.

Re: Zoom's TOS Permit Training AI on User Content Without Opt-Out

#27

Post by neogodless »

davidpaulyoung wrote: post #16

People who trust Zoom, also trust Facebook. Jitsi runs highly optimized on a number of great platforms such as https://federated.computer .

As a complete Jitsi newb, I went here, and I'm confused.

https://jitsi.org/downloads/

> If you want to run Jitsi on your own desktop or server, you can download Jitsi Desktop, Jitsi Meet and all Jitsi related projects below.

But I don't see any download links for "Desktop" or "Meet". Is the text on the page just outdated?

Given some more web digging, it seems like that page should (but doesn't) link to the real download page: https://desktop.jitsi.org/Main/Download.html

Re: Zoom's TOS Permit Training AI on User Content Without Opt-Out

#28

Post by LegitShady »

hendler wrote: post #4

Zoom's general response includes 10.1 and 10.4 https://blog.zoom.us/zooms-term-service-ai/ See COO response too other HN thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37029700

zoom lied about end to end encryption for years and years. I wouldn't trust them no matter what response they give.

Re: Zoom's TOS Permit Training AI on User Content Without Opt-Out

#29

Post by user6723 »

Asking anyone in a commercial context to submit to a video conference where their biometric likeness will be collected and analyzed deserves two years in jail.

There is enough open source and working crypto out there to have an encrypted call. People with dignity should not have to be tyrannized by utter stupidity, at least not on this issue.

Re: Zoom's TOS Permit Training AI on User Content Without Opt-Out

#30

Post by akomtu »

Speaking plainly, Zoom steals user data to train its AI models and to sell that data to whoever pays. Imagine a regular business run like this: you enter a coffee shop and by pushing the door you agree to terms of service (250 pages of text available upon request) that allow the shop to record your conversations, take photos of you, and sell that data to anyone.
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