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Orb is a free and open source web desktop

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Re: Orb is a free and open source web desktop

#121

Post by gunapologist99 »

danShumway wrote: post #67
distantsounds wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, I'm very glad that we have a dozen and a half Javascript libraries that aren't jQuery instead!

GP isn't saying you should use React, they're saying that if you don't need React you probably don't need jQuery either and you might as well just use pure Javascript. Most of the functions people used jQuery for are natively supported in every major browser that runs Javascript, and the few that aren't have decent polyfills. I mean, let's be real; most of what people were using jQuery for was stuff like `querySelect…

bluebird?

Re: Orb is a free and open source web desktop

#122

Post by iamphilrae »

throwaway60707 wrote: post #86
oldandboring wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't stand how it always reloads each time I click on something. And yet here you are, using HackerNews just about every day, which works exactly the same way. No SPA. No 'forever loading', just a classic, fast SSR webapp that treats individual pieces of content as documents, just like how the web was designed to work.

This is a forum, not a management system where I need to open dozens of listings and hundreds of different detail pages and make modifications there. It also doesn't bother me much on here because HN is much faster than these systems - no wonder, since it's just a forum. But try updating the details of 50 employees, each separated into 5 subpages, when you need to wait 750ms to have each page load. And you need to lo…

Beauty of that though is that you can CMD+click on each one and open all 50 into separate tabs, then work on each one whilst the others load in the background. Want to cross-reference? Easy, just shift a tab to a new window. All likely not possible in an SPA, either because links don’t work like links, or because it’ll muck up state.

Re: Orb is a free and open source web desktop

#123

Post by guggle »

capableweb wrote: post #115
guggle wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never undertood the fuss with bandwidth and jquery either... it's only 30k once behind mod_deflate. To put it in perspective, vue.global.js is 463k or 104k once gzipped. There are many reason not to use Jquery for greenfield projects now, but bandwith is not one of them.

The "fuss" is not about the specific numbers of bandwidth but more the mindset of not using more resources than absolutely necessary. And yeah, my breed who seems to care about this seems to be scarcer and scarcer out there but I promise, we still do exists.

Funny how some people have this mindset only about jquery and not unecessary fonts, icons, image backgrounds, etc.

Re: Orb is a free and open source web desktop

#124

Post by j1elo »

oldandboring wrote: post #83
throwaway60707 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been evaluating some self-hosted/open source company management systems this weekend. Most of them are classic multi-page PHP apps. It's terrible. I can't stand how it always reloads each time I click on something. I remember it didn't bother me much in the past when everything was like that, but today we have much better options. I went for a SaaS built as a SPA. When I click on something, for example to create…

> I can't stand how it always reloads each time I click on something. And yet here you are, using HackerNews just about every day, which works exactly the same way. No SPA. No 'forever loading', just a classic, fast SSR webapp that treats individual pieces of content as documents, just like how the web was designed to work.

To play Devil's advocate, while I agree with you, in reality it happened multiple times (last one, 2 minutes ago while writing a comment in other HN entry) where I am writing the response but then would like to have a peek at the chain of comments I'm responding to.

Using the phone that's very annoying. I have to long press on the entry's link on the header, open in a new tab, recheck the message trail, and go back to the first tab to end writing.

So simoly as that, I could think of lots of times where a SPA-style dropdown editor box inserted in the conversation view, would be more useful than the current HN's reply page.

If the reply page contained the whole discussion, though, the problem would be equally solved too. So I'm not saying that an SPA would be 100% better, just mentioning an example that occurred to me.

Re: Orb is a free and open source web desktop

#125

Post by danShumway »

gunapologist99 wrote: post #121
danShumway wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GP isn't saying you should use React, they're saying that if you don't need React you probably don't need jQuery either and you might as well just use pure Javascript. Most of the functions people used jQuery for are natively supported in every major browser that runs Javascript, and the few that aren't have decent polyfills. I mean, let's be real; most of what people were using jQuery for was stuff like `querySelect…

bluebird?

Yep, good catch :) It's been a while since I ran into it.

Re: Orb is a free and open source web desktop

#126

Post by throwaway60707 »

gunapologist99 wrote: post #118
throwaway60707 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a forum, not a management system where I need to open dozens of listings and hundreds of different detail pages and make modifications there. It also doesn't bother me much on here because HN is much faster than these systems - no wonder, since it's just a forum. But try updating the details of 50 employees, each separated into 5 subpages, when you need to wait 750ms to have each page load. And you need to lo…

speed has nothing to do with the problem that you originally described. an AJAX call can take 750ms also.

There's no AJAX call in a SPA if all I did was close a detail side-pane to get back to the listing. The AJAX call goes on in background if I saved a modification and I can continue to use the app as it runs. And when I open a detail, at least I'm not watching the whole damn app reload and reconstruct itself from scratch for the 1000th time, and need to download just the data and not the whole bloated HTML mess.

Re: Orb is a free and open source web desktop

#127

Post by throwaway60707 »

iamphilrae wrote: post #122
throwaway60707 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a forum, not a management system where I need to open dozens of listings and hundreds of different detail pages and make modifications there. It also doesn't bother me much on here because HN is much faster than these systems - no wonder, since it's just a forum. But try updating the details of 50 employees, each separated into 5 subpages, when you need to wait 750ms to have each page load. And you need to lo…

Beauty of that though is that you can CMD+click on each one and open all 50 into separate tabs, then work on each one whilst the others load in the background. Want to cross-reference? Easy, just shift a tab to a new window. All likely not possible in an SPA, either because links don’t work like links, or because it’ll muck up state.

You can do that with a SPA. All SPAs I made and most of the ones I use support it just fine.

Re: Orb is a free and open source web desktop

#128

Post by throwaway60707 »

JohnFen wrote: post #120
throwaway60707 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a forum, not a management system where I need to open dozens of listings and hundreds of different detail pages and make modifications there. It also doesn't bother me much on here because HN is much faster than these systems - no wonder, since it's just a forum. But try updating the details of 50 employees, each separated into 5 subpages, when you need to wait 750ms to have each page load. And you need to lo…

> when you need to wait 750ms to have each page load Wait, what? If it's taking most of a second for a page to load, then that's the problem, not that it isn't a SPA.

What can I do? Do you have a suggestion for a different HRIS? All of these that have all needed features are bloated OOP apps in PHP...

Re: Orb is a free and open source web desktop

#129

Post by throwaway60707 »

gunapologist99 wrote: post #117
throwaway60707 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been evaluating some self-hosted/open source company management systems this weekend. Most of them are classic multi-page PHP apps. It's terrible. I can't stand how it always reloads each time I click on something. I remember it didn't bother me much in the past when everything was like that, but today we have much better options. I went for a SaaS built as a SPA. When I click on something, for example to create…

you're typing this on one of those classic multi-page apps. it's not terrible. it's the web.

There's a massive difference in how I use a forum and how I use a company management system. MPA is fine for a forum, not for a company management system. This is the web indeed, and the company management app is just using the web browser as an app platform. No reason to conflate the two.

Re: Orb is a free and open source web desktop

#130

Post by tambourine_man »

gunapologist99 wrote: post #119
tambourine_man wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

jQuery was a browser normalization layer and one heck of an API for DOM manipulation. The first is thankfully not needed anymore, the second hasn’t been matched in simplicity and power by the native one, unfortunately. Not by a long shot. If you don’t believe me, check out one of the “You Might Not Need jQuery” sites. They read much like “you might not need firelighter, stones and sticks are all you need”.

to be honest, I don't use jquery either, but https://youmightnotneedjquery.com/ seems to be telling me that I might just need jquery if I want the code to be concise and readable. EDIT: oh, I just realized that's exactly what you were saying!

Yeah, I always find it hilarious that it ends up showing that you may not need it but it sure is nice to have.
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